LL-L "How do you say ...?" 2004.08.16 (09) [E]

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From: Global Moose Translations <globalmoose at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "How do you say ...?" 2004.08.16 (07) [E]

John Feather wrote:
> While I was researching Berlinerisch I came across a website discussing
the
> precise meaning of "Ich bin ein Berliner". The general conclusion was that
> without "ein" the phrase asserts that the speaker is a Berliner through
and
> through - "born and bred" as we might say in London. With "ein" it was
held
> to mean something else, though many of the contributors were unable to
state
> what this might be. Perhaps we might think of a long-term resident, or an
> adopted son.

Well, there are several misconceptions here. Obviously, JFK's German simply
wasn't very good, and so he said what amounts to something like "I am a
jelly doughnut" (they call them "Bismarcks" in America). A German, of
course, would say "ich bin Berliner", or, more likely: "Ich komme aus
Berlin".. So, there is no use speculating about the deeper meaning of
something which simply wasn't ever said in German, but made up by a
well-meaning foreigner.

Also, this sentence gets misquoted about 95% of the time, both in English
and German. JFK never claimed that HE felt like he was from Berlin; he just
said something among the lines of: "some day you people will be able to say
again, with pride: ich bin ein Berliner." Since he said the last bit in
German, that's the only part most Germans understood.

Gabriele Kahn

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From: John Baskind <jbaskind at mac.com>
Subject: LL-L "How do you say ...?" 2004.08.16 (07) [E]

On Aug 16, 2004, at 1:35 PM, John Feather wrote:

> While I was researching Berlinerisch I came across a website
> discussing the
> precise meaning of "Ich bin ein Berliner". The general conclusion was
> that
> without "ein" the phrase asserts that the speaker is a Berliner
> through and
> through - "born and bred" as we might say in London. With "ein" it was
> held
> to mean something else, though many of the contributors were unable to
> state
> what this might be. Perhaps we might think of a long-term resident, or
> an
> adopted son.

Anecdotally, I was told by good friend and  Berlin native that "ein
Berliner" refers to a type of sausage popular in his home town. If this
is true, Kennedy said  "I am a local sausage"

Regards

-
John Baskind
mailto:jbaskind at mac.com

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From: Gary Taylor <gary_taylor_98 at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "How do you say ...?" 2004.08.16 (07) [E]

Hi All

Ron you wrote regarding a pronunciation of Hamburger 'bourn' that it's
pronounced as in South England
English 'boor'.

For me 'boor' and 'bore' are pronounced identically, although for others
they are pronounced differently.
Do you mean for 'boor' as in 'tour' or 'boor' as in 'poor'?

Ok I'm playing Devil's advocate here...

The vowel of 'pure' (without the /j/) is dying out where the /j/ is not
present in my variety of English,
although I still use it in 'tour' and derivitives of 'tour', however 'boor',
'poor' and 'sure' etc are all
pronounced as 'bore', 'pour' and 'shore' (and 'paw' and 'Shaw' for that
matter).

I do have a question here though. As said 'tour' + derivitives (I think) is
the only word I say which has
this old vowel. Am I unique in this or is this a general London (and perhaps
further afield) feature?

Gary

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: How do you say ...?

Gary,

> Ron you wrote regarding a pronunciation of Hamburger
> 'bourn' that it's pronounced as in South England
> English 'boor'.
>
> For me 'boor' and 'bore' are pronounced identically,
> although for others they are pronounced differently.
> Do you mean for 'boor' as in 'tour' or 'boor' as in
> 'poor'?

I was thinking the very thing just after I sent it off.  I was trying to
avoid the possibility of [ju] for <u>, you see.  I had been tempted to use
"bore" and "Boer" as a pair, but subconsciously I must have been trying to
avoid offending our Afrikaans-speaking friends.

Anyway, I take it that by now everyone is getting what I had tried to
convey.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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