LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.08.26 (07) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject: "Language varieties" [E]

> From: john feather <johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk>
> Subject: Language varieties
>
> The Venerable Bede's story of the Angles, Saxons and Jutes is over-simple.
> The invaders came over a period of time and not necessarily directly from
> their traditional homelands. I have read that the Saxons settled all round
> the coast of the mainland from the Scheldt to the Loire. But if we start
> assuming that large numbers came to Britain as traders and mercenaries and
> basically took power by force of numbers when their populations had built
> up, don't we have a problem with the lack of Latin and Celtic in OE apart
> from place names? There are some Celtic terms for physical features of the
> landscape but almost no Latin except words already borrowed on the
> Continent. There may not have been any _need_ for more Latin but we know
> from the later
> Viking/Danish invasions that even closely similar words can exist side by
> side over long periods.
>
> Dan wrote:
> >The Old English dialects called Anglian most likely developed their
> distinguishing features in Britain. So there is no one continental dialect
> which can be considered the parent dialect of Anglian, but it was rather a
> levelled colonial amalgam of several dialects. The situation is no
different
> for the Saxon dialects of Old English.<
>
> If this is the case, can anyone suggest any reason why much the same
mixture
> of source languages gave two distinct language groups in "England"?
>
> John Feather
> johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk

Sandy
http://scotstext.org/

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From: Utz H. Woltmann <uwoltmann at gmx.de>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.08.26 (07) [E]

Moin Ron,

>From: R. F. Hahn <lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net>
>Subject: Language varieties
>
>As far as I know, French was adopted mostly by the (would-be) aristocracy
>and their hangers-on.  But much of this was just for show.  French was used
>at high-society gatherings, but German was used in private life.  They may
>even have spoken, at least understood, Lowlands Saxon (Low German) if they
>had enough contact with "the people" and had had local nannies rather than
>German- or French-speaking ones.  Some aristocrats weren't quite as refined
>as they thought they were.  Especially when they "let go," such as when
>drunk, they would oftentimes carry on in LS.  This was the case pretty much
>everywhere in Northern Germany, I believe.

'"Was ist das. - Was - ist das..."
"Je, den Düvel ook, cést la question, ma très chère demoiselle!"
Die Konsulin Buddenbrook, ...'

Thomas Mann: Buddenbrooks, First Part, First Chapter, Begin

Kumpelmenten
Utz H. Woltmann

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Utz:

> '"Was ist das. - Was - ist das..."
> "Je, den Düvel ook, cést la question, ma très chère demoiselle!"
> Die Konsulin Buddenbrook, ...'

Thanks a lot, Utz.

Folks, for those of you who don't understand let me mention that it is a
quote from Thomas Mann's _Die Buddenbrooks_ (_The Buddenbrooks_), a novel
about a well-to-do 19th century family in Lübeck, Germany.  (Buddenbrook is
a Lowlands Saxon surname.)

My annotated translation:

{German:} "What is it?  What -- is it ..."
{LS:} "Well, yes, darn it, {French:} that's the question, my dearest young
ladies!"
Consul Buddenbrook's wife, ...

Kumpelmenten,
Reinhard/Ron

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