LL-L "Etymology" 2004.08.31 (08) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 31.AUG.2004 (08) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Ruth & Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.08.31 (04) [D/E]

Beste Pyt Berg

Subject: Dutch into English
>
> am trying to ascertain the Dutch words that have come into English
>
> The ones I know about come from
> (a)navagation in 1600+
> (b) and via the Dutch settlement of New Netherland in the USA.
> (Read the book "The Island at the centre of the World")
> (c) Afrikaans.
>
> a. Starboard - Stuurboord,  Stranded (beached) -Strand, Yacht  -Jacht
> b.  Coleslaw - Kohl Sla,  boss - baas, Sinta Klaas - Santa Claus.
> c.  Trek, apartheid, boer??
>
> Can anybody ADD to this list??

a. Omtrent alles betreffende die seevaart, en nie net na 1600 nie!
boom  - boom, bent - bind, orlop - oorloop, deck - dek, skipper - skipper,
carboy - karba, Haul - haal.
According to 'Royce on Sailing' there was an international mercantile marine
language. by which a seaman could ship on any Northwestern European vessel,
& understand the bo's'n's orders. The difficulty is to decide which was the
foundation language. 'Dutch' (& I do not mean by this 'Netherlands') is a
strong
contender. Think Hansaeatic League
b. bushwack - boswag, dollar - dollar, cookie - koekje, stoop - stoep,
waffle - wafel, spook - spook.
Try to get hold of 'American Talk' by J L Dillard
c. spoor - spoor, kopje - koppie, caffir - kaffer, aardvark - erdvark & all
the 'buck - bok' antelope (Springbuck, blesbuck etc)

Groete,
Mark

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From: Floor en Lyanne van Lamoen <fvanlamoen at planet.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.08.31 (04) [D/E]

> From: Pyt Berg <pytbergy at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Dutch into English
>
> am trying to ascertain the Dutch words that have come into English
>
> The ones I know about come from
> (a)navagation in 1600+
> (b) and via the Dutch settlement of New Netherland in the USA.
> (Read the book "The Island at the centre of the World")
> (c) Afrikaans.
>
> a. Starboard - Stuurboord,  Stranded (beached) -Strand, Yacht  -Jacht
> b.  Coleslaw - Kohl Sla,  boss - baas, Sinta Klaas - Santa Claus.
> c.  Trek, apartheid, boer??
>
> Can anybody ADD to this list??

How about the almost first entries in English dictionaries: aardvark and
aardwolf?

Groeten,
Floor.

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From: john feather <johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Etymology

Pieter asked about Dutch words in English. Why?

a) Seafaring: boom, vang, lighter ?, pram, skeg. NOT starboard.

c) Afrikaans: baas. Chambers has nagmaal but probably hasn't travelled from
S Africa except in John Buchan.

Clock, dike meaning embankment ?, brandy, advocaat.

Suggestions only - no warranty.

Two difficulties in criticising how people represent sounds in languages and
dialects other than their own is that almost by definition they don't have
the same phonemes and there is no standard way of representing them without
resorting to phonetic symbols. A person from the North of England doesn't to
my ear say anything like "bogger" and he doesn't say "booger" to rhyme with
"Kruger" but he does say something like "booger" with a short vowel. That's
the way the phoneme is represented in the "Atlas of English Dialects".

My Norfolk grandmother once went into a butcher's shop in Outer London to
buy bones for her dog. The butcher replied that she should ask at the
baker's. She used a pronunciation rather like "boons" [short "oo"] which the
butcher interpreted as "buns" in a Northern accent, which was much more
familiar to him. After she'd explained (how?) the butcher said, as she
reproduced it, "Aaow, you mean 'baaowns'!".

I don't know what my German-Polish grandmother would have made of this!

John Feather johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Has anyone mentioned "meercat" so far?

The mongoose-like (very cute) ones (_Cynictis penicillata _):

OED:
<quote>

< South African Dutch _meerkat_ (Afrikaans _meerkat_), transferred use of
Dutch _meerkat_ a long-tailed monkey of the family _Cercopithecidae_ (see
MERCAT n.).
  The forms _mier-cat_, _mier-kat_, _mierkat_ reflect the Afrikaans variant
_mierkat_ (with the first element altered by folk etymology after Afrikaans
_mier_ ant, termite).

</quote>

The long-tailed monkey known as "mercat," now obsolete:

OED
<quote>

< South African Dutch _meerkat_ (Afrikaans _meerkat_), transferred use of
Dutch _meerkat_ a long-tailed monkey of the family _Cercopithecidae_ (see
MERCAT n.).
  The forms _mier-cat_, _mier-kat_, _mierkat_ reflect the Afrikaans variant
_mierkat_ (with the first element altered by folk etymology after Afrikaans
_mier_ ant, termite).

 < Middle Dutch _meercat_, _meercatte_ (Dutch _meerkat_; cf. MEERKAT n.),
cognate with Middle Low German _merkatte_, Old High German _merikazza_,
_merkazza_ (Middle High German _merekatze_, _merkatze_, German _Meerkatze_),
app. < _meer_ (see MERE n.1) + _catte_ (see CAT n.1).
  Perh. originally an alteration of an Oriental name (cf. Sanskrit _markata_
ape) by assimilation to words meaning 'sea' and 'cat', with the notion of
‘ape from overseas’.
</quote>

I suppose they mean Sanskrit मर्कट _markaṭa_ (markaTa) 'monkey', 'ape', or
is it supposed to be मार्कट _mārkaṭa_ (mArkaTa) 'monkey-like', 'ape-like'?


Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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