LL-L "Etymology" 2004.12.01 (04) [E/LS]

Wed Dec 1 21:20:13 UTC 2004

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Brooks, Mark <mark.brooks at twc.state.tx.us>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.11.30 (05) [E]

Tom asked: "Anyone else in Ireland call a variety of cabbage as Kale?"

I'm not in Ireland, but in that outpost called Texas.  Yes, kale is a kind
of cabbage.  What we call cabbage is a very light green (almost white) plant
that has a very dense head, roughly the size of a volleyball.  Kale, on the
other hand, is much greener and the head is less dense.  The leaves are
curlier too.

Mark Brooks

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From: Henry Pijffers <henry.pijffers at saxnot.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.12.01 (01) [E]

Heinrich Becker schreev:
>
> Du boerekool, LSax groynkool, Germ Grünkohl, Fr chou frisé, Sp col
 >
That would be boereNkool then.

> in "Westmünsterland Platt" - greetings to Felix - they have a very short
> word: only Moos ! E.g. Sauerkraut is "Suurmoos".
>
That's what we call it in Twente too.

Ron schreev:
>
> _Moos_ means 'moss' where I come from.  :-)
>
That'd be "mos" in Twente and probably Westmünsterland as well.

regards,
Henry

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From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject: "Proverbs" [E]

> From: ezinsser at icon.co.za <ezinsser at icon.co.za>
> Subject: LL-L "Proverbs" 2004.11.28 (07) [E]
>
> Hi all,
>
> Sandy, my thoughts on numbers 5 and 8:
>
> > 5.  That's a lady who would cause you to swing the broom.
> A woman worthy/tough enough to change roles for.

Ah yes - that makes sense, thanks!

> > 8.  You should mind how you go; you have children of your own, and
> >you don't know who's
> door may fall on the back of their neck.
>
> This one reminds me of the one we use in Afrikaans too:
> 'You too have green corn on the field' so don't criticize the way other
> people bring up
> their children.

That's clear enough, but I still don't understand the Scots version.

> From: Dave Singleton <davidsin at pt.lu>
> Subject: LL-L "Proverbs" 2004.11.28 (07) [E]
>
> > 3.  An empty stomach makes the kail [soup] excellent.
> Is this really soup ?? I know kail as cabbage (even in Yorkshire) or is
> it cabbage soup?

We didn't eat kail (the cabbage). My mother always referred to one of her
soups as "kail". Then one day after I'd left home I bought a tin of Scotch
Broth and discovered that that was the same as kail! A usual if a think is
qualified with "Scotch" in English then it has some other name in Scots  :)

Sandy
http://scotstext.org/

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Henry:

> That would be boereNkool then.

But o' coourse!  Pronunciation interference again.

> > in "Westmünsterland Platt" - greetings to Felix - they have a very short
> > word: only Moos ! E.g. Sauerkraut is "Suurmoos".
> >
> That's what we call it in Twente too.

I wonder if it is related to _mous_ ~ _moos_ 'mash' in other Lowlands Saxon
varieties (cf. French _mousse_, German _Mus_), also as a verb: _mousen_ ~
_mosen_ 'to mash', 'to mess'.  I am wondering this because kale is
traditionally cooked until very tender and is then oftentimes mashed, either
by itself or with other ingredients (much like _caldo verde_, one of the
national dishes of Portugal, e.g.
http://www.leitesculinaria.com/recipes/caldo_verde.html).

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

*****

_Hamburger Abendblatt_ (http://www.abendblatt.de)
Clara Kramer-Freudenthal (http://www.sassisch.net/rhahn/kramer/):

Norderstedt

Greunkohltiet
Clara Kramer vertellt

Wat dree Wüür "Dat is Greunkohl" utleusen köönt, dat will ik mit Ernst
Meyer, he wohnt hier in de Heidbargstroot, sien E-mail an Jürgen Hebold in
Barmstedt wiedergeben in Ernst sien originool Elmshorner Platt. Uns
Modersprook hett uns tosoombröcht un to Frünn'n mookt. Leider mütt ik de
Mail afkötten, ober to'n Smustern blifft liekers noch noog. Nu Ernst sien
Mail an Jürgen: He hett dat jo gar nich so meent, mien Fründ Jürgen. He
vertellt mi, dat dat en neen "Sass" gifft, uns plattdüütsch Wörterbook, wo
wi uns all, besonners de Hamborger un Holstener an hoolt. An'n Sluss sett he
denn noch: "Dat is Gröönkohltiet" - mit Ausrufezeichen! Wo kunn he blots
sowat schrieven, wo kunn he so leeg sien. Liggt doch in Gröönkohl mit
Swiensback, Kassler un Rookwust all mien Seligkeit. He hett mi deep in mien
Innersten dropen, un een Verlangen weckt, dat ik so avends kott vör't
Avendbroot, hungrig as ik weer, vör mien PC sittend, gar nich stillen kunn.
Wat heff ik rumqeest, all siet Dagen: "Dat warrt koolt buten, wi schullen
doch mal Gröönkohl eten. Aver mien Fru reageer noch nicht. Se snackt vun
Wiehnachten, dor kunnen wi jo för de hele Familije un so . . . Wiehnachten
is noch veerunveerdig Daag lang weg! Ik segg: "Jürgen hett dat ok schreven,
dat is Gröönkohltiet." "Jo, heff ik höört", sä se. "Du willst doch afnehmen,
du hest siet Gran Canaria dien Punnen nich'n beten rünnerkregen. Un denn
noch Swiensback bavendrop. Jümmers mutt ich de duppelt Meng koken, dat du de
neegst Daag no rieklich Speck mit Muster beschmeerst un op Swattbroot
leggst. Ohn' een Buddel Beer geiht dat ok nich af! Överlegg di dat, ool
Leckertung. Süh, dor harr ik dat Mallöör. Umsonst krieg ik de Punnen nich
rünner. Se alleen hett de Schuld. Se kookt eenfach to goot! Jüst so as mien
Modder." Noch ünner den Indruck von unbännig Smachten heff ik mien Fründ
Jürgen forts antert, een lang E-Mail. Ik schreev em: "Mien leve Jürgen,
Gröönkohl un Swiensback, dat will ik di man flüstern, dat is een fein
Gericht. Arfensupp mit Snuten un Poten nich minner. Mit Bohnen, Birnen un
Speck lüüd wi de Saison in. Swattsuur mit Bookwetenklümp or Wittsuur mit
Mehlklüten, dor geiht nix över. Een pökelt Iesbeen mit Suurkruut schull in
Harst nich fehlen. Gegen Kohl mit Lammfleesch heff ik nix intowennen. Wenn
wi schon mal bi Kohl sünd, denn denk ik an Kohlrouladen! Sünd wi nu mal bi't
Hackfleesch, denn ok an een Pann vull Frikandellen. Dor mööt recht veel
blond-brune Zippeln över de Saltkantüffeln. Gele Röven, wi seggt Steekröven,
de passt, in Bodder wennt, to Swattsuur as de Rootkohl to'n Braden. Kannst
ok mit Wotteln mengeleern un Rövenmuus von koken.
     All Oarten vun Bradens wörr ik geern ansnieden, besonners mag ik zartet
Ossenfleesch vun jung Dithmarscher Bullen mit Meerrettichsauce. Un denn
eerst de Aal, wat gifft dat dor vör fein Gerichten: Hamborger Aalsupp, gröön
Aal in Dillsauce, Aal in de Pann, in Bodder braadt. Suurn Aal in Gelee mit
Braatkartüffeln, un de mööt recht fett sien! Kennst du den Smuttaal, den wi
as Jung op'n Jahrmart as Bundaal för 25 Penn köfft hebbt? En heel besonners
Spezialität is bi mi: warm Röhrei op Swattbroot mit opleggt rökert
Aalfileets. Na, mien leve Jürgen, heff ik di n'beten Apptiet maakt? Wie du
mi, so ik di!"

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15. Nov. 2003

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