LL-L "Morphology" 2004.01.06 (06) [E]

Fri Feb 6 18:48:17 UTC 2004

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Frédéric Baert <baert_frederic at CARAMAIL.COM>
Subject: LL-L "Morphology" 2004.01.05 (06) [E]

>From: Tom Maguire <jmaguire at pie.xtec.es>
>Subject: LL-L "Morphology" 2004.01.04 (02) [E]
>
>> From: burgdal32admin <burgdal32 at pandora.be>
>> Subject: LL-L "Morphology" 2004.01.26 (08) [E]
>>
>> Begin doorgestuurd bericht:
>>
>>>burgdal32admin heeft op dinsdag, 3 feb 2004 om 18:07 (Europe/Brussels)
>>>het volgende geschreven:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>From: Tom Maguire <jmaguire at pie.xtec.es>
>>>>>Subject: LL-L "Morphology" 2004.01.26 (01) [E]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>So the question is, do other latine languages have such a way to
>>>>>>express
>>>>>>future or is French the only to have it. In this case, it might be
>>>>>>one
>>>>>
>>>>>more
>>>>>
>>>>>>feature of Frankish influence on French which makes it the "most
>>>>>>germanic
>>>>>>of the latine languages" as i read it in a book about evolution of
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>French.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Cheers
>>>>>>FrÃƒÂ©dÃƒÂ©ric Baert
>>>>>
>>>>>Hello Frederic and All,
>>>>>
>>>>>In  response to the Latin language question of proximate Future,
>>>>>Spanish
>>>>>has the formula "Voy a ir" which coincides with the French "Je vais y
>>>>>aller." to express future. Curiously enough the Catalan expression is
>>>>>"Vaig anar-hi." which means "I went", not "I am going to go.", as
>>>>>expected. I believe that the Roman/Latin language Empire was much
>>>>>more
>>>>>imposing than any other of the same epoch and that basic influence
>>>>>ran
>>>>>from Latin to Germanic and not inversely.
>>>>>
>>>>>Within these postings on "Morphology" is there an underlying
>>>>>desire/ideology to seek the Germanic influence on Latin?
>>>>>Given that Germania and Scotland were the only 2 areas that did not
>>>>>completely succumb to Roman influence in Northern Europe, is it
>>>>>really
>>>>>believable that the non-latin dialects would affect the latin
>>>>>dialects
>>>>>in their tenses forms?
>>>>>
>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>>Tom
>>>
>>>>Hi Tom
>>>>There could  be a "desire" as you write here above, but i don't think
>>>>there is. I have to mentione that there is a 500 year(and more) old
>>>>desire to connect everything with a French/Latin influence. When
>>>>somebody even mentiones a German influence he is already 'suspected
>>>>of imperialisme" . In the birth of the French Language, the Frank
>>>>(old-Flemish) influence can not be underestimated, but has been for
>>>>meany centuries. And yes i know that it was the other way around in
>>>>the centuries to follow.
>>>>Old  Flanders (probably the original old Germania) was also not too
>>>>influenced by the Roman empire hence the continuing of the German and
>>>> later the  Frankish language. Look at a map  and you will find
>>>>hughes numbers of  placenames in France with a German origine, up to
>>>>the Loire district and even further with language islands into Spain.
>>>>One example: What could one say of the origine of the word "Les
>>>>Landes" in the flat lands near Bordeaux?
>>>>I think there is a lot of work to do in France with people wo know
>>>>French and German languages.
>>>>Groetjes
>>>>luc vanbrabant
>>>>oekene
>
>Yes, not to mention the country of the Norsemen, La Normandie, or
>Britanny whose language is of Celtic origin, or Alsace-Lorraine which
>has a Germanic dialect. The Basque country, straddling the Pyrenees, may
>have a language of Eastern origins (Sanscrit?). Big country, France, and
>maybe not so Latin as supposed.
>
>Your location of Germania in Flanders is interesting. I had always
>imagined it as bordering the Rhine, for some reason. I think I got the
>picture from Tacitus.
>
>The "Germanic language islands" in Spain is an intriguing pointer. Any
>more info. on that?
>
>Regards,
>
>Tom
>--
>Carpe Diem.
>-Visit Nlp in Education  http://www.xtec.es/~jmaguire
>-Join Nlp-Education  mailto:nlp-education-subscribe at yahoogroups.com
>-Join Seal-Spain  mailto:seal-spain-subscribe at yahoogroups.com
>
>----------
>
>From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
>Subject: Morphology
>
>Tom:
>
>> The Basque country, straddling the Pyrenees, may
>> have a language of Eastern origins (Sanscrit?).
>
>As a non-Lowlandic aside, Basque is most definitely not related to
Sanskrit,
>the latter of which is an Indo-European language.  People have tried to
link
>Basque with all sorts of possible and impossible language families, and
none
>of it pans out.  I suppose it's hard for folks to accept that there are
>language isolates, languages that cannot be assigned to groups and
families.
>Basque, a language isolate and thus now representing a family of its own,
>could well be a remnant of an otherwise extinct family, a remnant that
>survived in a non-Indo-European enclave (probably a fraction of its earlier
>territory) due to the land having been less desirable to the various
>Indo-European-speaking "invaders."  This sort of thing is most likely true
>of various language isolates in the Caucasus as well.  Among other language
>isolates there are Ainu (Hokkaido, Japan; Sakhalin and Kuril in Siberia),
>Zuñi (New Mexico, USA), Burushaski (Hunza-Nagar and Yasin of Gilgit,
>Pakistan) and Gilyak (Sakhalin, Siberia).
>
>I have a feeling that Basque influenced the Romance languages of Spain at
>least phonologically (e.g., length distinction of <-r>, <-r->, <r-> and
><rr>).
>
>I find it fascinating to think (or assume) that many of the differences
>between the Germanic languages (including the Lowlands languages) are
likely
>to be due to not only to Celtic substrates in some regions but also to
>earlier non-European languages about which we know nothing and probably
will
>never know anything.  Who were the builders of those ancient rock monuments
>and dolmens of Britain and the Continental Lowlands (including parts of
>Denmark), and what did they speak?
>
>Regards,
>Reinhard/Ron

Hi to everybody

About location of Germania in Flanders, I think the main source for this
hypothesis is the belgian historian Albert Delahaye. I don't know how
serious this hypothesis is and what to think about it. You can find some
information in dutch at this site :

http://home-1.concepts.nl/~delahaye/visie.htm

I will be interested to know what you other think about it.

Frd ric Baert

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