LL-L "Orthography" 2004.07.05 (03) [A/E/LS]

Mon Jul 5 19:02:34 UTC 2004

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Kenneth Rohde Christiansen <kenneth.christiansen at gmail.com>
Subject: How open source can help us.

Hi there!

--
I like it! It looks almost exactly like the orthography I devised
myself. Probably because I used the same stuff as basis. Only difference
I see so far (just had a glance at your Tuunkrüper story) is the u/uu
sounds (as in Dutch). I use u for German u (as in "Flur"), ue for Dutch
short u (as in "put"), and uy for Dutch long u (as in "vuur"), so I
write "flure", "puette", and "duyre" (meaning door, because
"vuur"/"fire" would be "vöyr").
--

We use u for lax german u and for the ó (used in the Groninger
spelling) sound in dialects where u has turned into ó and is still
different from ò [O] and o.
We use ü for Dutch lax u.

--
I'm going to look into your ANS, and see if I can adopt it, i.e. whether
it fits my Saxon dialect. I think I will, because it seems like it's 90%
the same. Or perhaps with a few modifications, I don't know... Will see.
--

Sounds good :-)

--
Wat kan ik doon? Muet ik wat schryven? Kan ik wat bydreagen? Tyd het ik
wal, daet is geyn probleem.
--
As du tyd hest kinst misscheyn mit my ontmouten - k Bin nou in Grünnen
en ik dink tot vrydag.

--
Eyrstmaal kunst 'n vertellen vun "Dey Tuunkrüyper" schryven. Up dey wys'
warst künnig, wouans dat mit düsse schryvwys' is, of sey vör Dyn dialekt tou
bruken is.
--

Misscheyn kinst ook eyn mp3- of wav-bestand maken? It probleem mit
schryvwysen binnen vaak dey allofonen - lütje verschillen dat minschen
geern schyven willen.

--
Den gift 't 'n barg annere saken, un daar hett upstünds us Kenneth dat
seggen. (Dey junge snösel is dey motoor vun dat projekt un dey terrier, dey
my vaken by dey hakken tou byten is ...) Wy wült dat systeem beschryven, in
Sassisch, Ingelsch, Düytsch un Hollandsch, wen 't gayt. Wen Du mit-doun
wult, den kryg' ik min vun Kenneth syn druk tou spöyren ... ;-)
--

En dat dinkst? :P hahah

--
deyrt [dE.I3t] ~ [di:3t] 'animal'*
peyrd [pE.I3t] ~ [pi:3t] 'horse'*
peyrd' [pE:I3(d)] ~ [pi:.3(d)] 'horses'* (< peyrde)

* In some dialects, like those of the Lower Elbe region, diphthongs before
/r/ surface as high monophthongs.
--

en dat willen wy leiver neit in dey schyvwyse sein laden as it mögelk
is dat neit te doun.

We need to show the important differences between the dialects and not
the smaller ones. We need to unite the spelling and make it work for
most of the dialects - of course with out making it too difficult to
use. This is very important at least if we want to translate computer
software into Low Saxon.

----------

From: Ruth & Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2004.07.04 (03) [A/E]

Beste Liza du Plooy en Reinhard,

 Subject: LL-L "Phonology"

> This is why I love my language! In Afrikaans sê mens appel en jy spel dit
> appel. Ek dink dit is 'n fantastiese en maklike taal. Hoera Afrikaans!

Laat ons dit geniet wyls ons kan! Mense praat heelwat meer as hulle skryf,
en verander baie vinniger hul spreektaal as hul skryftaal. Eens op 'n tyd is
Engels ook gespreek soos dit geskryf is, nê? Ek verwag net so lank 'n
geskiedenis van Afrikaans as wat Engels tot op hede gehad het, en hoe sal
ons nageslag in die duistere toekoms vir ons Taal wil skel, met sy
ouderwetse en onnatuurlikke spelling!

(Let us enjoy it while we can! People speak rather more than they write, and
change their spoken language much quicker than their written language.  Once
upon a time English was also spoken as it was written, not so? I expect with
Afrikaans just as long a history as English has had until now, and how our
descendants in the distant future will want to cuss this language, with its
old-fashioned and unnatural spelling!)

> In Nedersassies spel 'n mens ook "appel" (of "Appel") en sê "appel".  Maar
> in die meeste tongvalle sê 'n mens die "-el" sonder 'n klinker; dis 'n
> lettergrepig "l", asof "apl" gespel.

Wil u aub hieroor uitbrei, Ron? Mynsinsiens het elke konsonant noodwendig 'n
"default" schwa: dit moet mos uitgespreek word, nê? Die Hebreuse alfabet is
baie afhanklik daarvan, maar is dit nie beter, in letterrgrepige verband, om
selfs die schwa by te voeg?

Groete,

Mark

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Orthography

Mark (hierbo):

> Wil u aub hieroor uitbrei, Ron? Mynsinsiens het elke konsonant noodwendig
'n
> "default" schwa: dit moet mos uitgespreek word, nê? Die Hebreuse alfabet
is
> baie afhanklik daarvan, maar is dit nie beter, in letterrgrepige verband,
om
> selfs die schwa by te voeg?

Ja, dit glo ek dikwels ook, Mark, ook wat _-en_ en _-er_ betref.

Dis belangwekkend, dat ons in Nedersassies <-el>, <-en> en <-er> skryf maar
dit nooit met 'n klinker uitspreek nie.  (<-en> is 'n lettergrepige [n], [m]
of [N]/[ng], wat van die voorafgaande konsonant afhank. <-er> en <-r> is 'n
lettergreep met r-kleur -- "non-rhotic".)

Ek weet nie of hierdie <-el>, <-en> en <-er> in Middelsassies mit schwa word
uitgespreek nie, of of hierdie spellings aan invloed van Duitse en Hollandse
spellings te wyte is.  Maar vir die huidige dialekte neem ek fonemies
lettergrepig /-l/, /-n/ en /-r/ aan.

Groete,
Reinhard/Ron

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