LL-L "Etymology" 2004.07.07 (03) [E]

Wed Jul 7 16:00:54 UTC 2004

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: David Barrow <davidab at telefonica.net.pe>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.07.06 (07) [E]

I've found in 'The Dream of the Rood'
'þæt wæs géara iú   - ic þæt gýta geman
þæt wæs áhéawan  holtes on ende'

where 'on ende' is glossed as 'from the edge' .

Since 'on end'  means 'consecutively' I think 'many years on end' in the
sense of one year from the edge of the previous year  could quite easily
evolved to mean 'many consecutive years'

David Barrow

>From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
>Subject: Etymology
>
>Sandy listed the following Scots phrases under "Idiomatica":
>
>>years on end: 'many years'
>>months on end: 'many months'
>>weeks on end: 'many weeks'
>>days on end: 'many days'
>>oors on end: 'many hours'
>
>Of course, "on end" in this sense is used in English as well, probably
>denoting "an endless string of" or "endless" originally.
>
>I often think about this and wonder if this "on" is unrelated to the usual
>word "on," if it is related to Lowlands Saxon (Low German) _aan_ and German
>_ohne_, meaning 'without'.  In LS you can say _aan end_ also, meaning
>"without end," 'endless(ly)', German _endlos_ (also _ohne Ende_).
>
>Of course, then this particular "on end" would have a different origin from
>that of "on end" as in "My hair(s) stood at end."
>
>I can find nothing in etymological notes and in Old English that would
>support this.  However, "on end" in the sense of "without end" seems a bit
>strange, doesn't it?
>
>Regards,
>Reinhard/Ron

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From: burgdal32admin <burgdal32 at pandora.be>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.07.06 (09) [E]

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Etymology
>
> Ah!  Thanks, Gavin!  You made my penny drop.  ;-)
>
> Old English has _wan_ 'lacking' (= 'without'), and _wana_ 'lack', and I
> assume "want" (_wan+t_ "lack"/"absence" > "need") is related to these.
>
> Modern Lowlands Saxon (Low German) has for instance _wanschapen_
> ['va.nSQ:pm] for 'ugly'.  (I take it that this _schapen_ is related to
> 'create' and in this case refers to 'proper/pleasing form'.)
>
> Regards,
> Reinhard/Ron
Hi Ron,
In Dutch we also have  words left  with  "wan-"
wanbesef / wanhof / wandaad / wangeboorte / wansucces / wanvoeding /
wanhoop...
and several more.
groetjes
luc vanbrabant
oekene

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Thanks a lot for your interesting points above, David and Luc!

David, under "Lexicon" you wrote today:

> For me because of  my surname all this talk about mountain terms is very
> interesting :-)
>
> Even if it has been semantically demoted

Perhaps it consoles you that Gothic _bairgz_, Old Norse _berg_ ~ _bjarg_,
English (_beorƽ_ >) "barrow" (~ "bargh" ~ "barf"), W. Frisian (/berg/)
_berch_, Lowlands Saxon (_berg_ >) _barg_, Low Franconian _berg_, German
_Berg_, etc. for 'mountain' and 'hill' raises fascinating etymological
questions, taking us all over the Indo-European map.  Here just a snippet or
two.

These tend to be seen as linked with Celtic: Old Irish _brigh_ 'mountain'
(and I wonder about Scottish Gaelic _brìg_ 'heap', 'pile', even though
Alexander McBain links it with English "brick").

Furthermore, there seem to be links with Slavonic; e.g., Old Slavonic
_brĕgŭ_ 'height', 'mountain' (i.e., "elevated place"), also Russian _bereg_
берег, Ukrainian _bereg_ берег, Czech _břeh_, Polish _brzeg_, Bulgarian
_brjag_ бряг, etc., 'bank', 'shore' (i.e., "rising/raised ground").

Going even farther afield, there is the reconstructed (Indo-)Aryan word
*_bhergh_ 'height'.  Sanskrit _br'hant_ 'high' tends to be shown as
connected with it and "barrow" etc.  I am tempted to go as far as linking it
with the Sanskrit root _bhar-_ 'to bear', 'to lift', 'to raise', 'to carry',
and the extension _bharat_ 'bearing', 'carrying', 'lifting', 'that which
bears' > 'India', probably also with Germanic *_ber-_ > English (_beran_ >)
"to bear," Gothic _bairan_, and Indo-Iranian: Persian (Farsi) _bordan_ بردن,
(< /bur-/), etc., all in the sense of 'to bear', and numerous derivatives
denoting 'to bear/carry/behave oneself', 'to give birth' and 'to be born'.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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