LL-L "Oral tradition" 2004.07.22 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * 22.JUL.2004 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org or lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From: John Duckworth <jcduckworth2003 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Oral Tradition


Sandy wrote:

"All this talk of Arthur still leaves me wondering why there's such a
strong
tradition of Merlin in Berwickshire, though."

There is a legend that Merlin died in the village of Drumelzier in
Peeblesshire (on the confluence of the River Tweed and the Powsail Burn),
stoned to death by frightened villagers, and that his tomb is located there.
The grave is marked by a plaque.

In Stobo in Peebles there is a curious ancient stone and the locals relate
that the marks on its upper surface were made by a witch who turned into a
hare when being hunted by Merlin.

In Moffat in Dumfriesshire there is a legend that Merlin fled to Hartfell
after being defeated in battle in 573. A number of local geographical
features are also named after Arthurian characters: there is an Arthur's
Seat here too, and a Merlin's Cave (near Newton Farm, for the curious).

The name or Merlin (Welsh Myrddin) appears in the form _Mirdyn_ in the Old
(or Middle) Welsh poem _Y Gododdin_, that may well have been written in a
Brythonic Edinburgh. Unfortunately it only appears once, and only in a later
version, which suggests that it may be a later interpolation.

John Duckworth
Preston, UK

----------

From: Pat Reynolds <pat at caerlas.demon.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Oral tradition" 2004.07.20 (05) [E]

Someone (sorry, lost the thread ... wrote
>> And why do archeologists still keep digging in Wales for evidence of
>Arthur
>> when they never manage to find anything? The idea that Avalon or Camelot
>was
>> at Glastonbury in Somerset is an obvious linguistic gaffe - Arthur was
>said
>> to have built a city of glass, but the "glas" in Glastonbury refers to
the
>> woad that used to be grown there (cf Welsh "glas" - "blue/grey/green").

First, to correct the impression given by the close proximity of these
two sentences: Somerset is not in Wales.

Second, 'why do archaeologists still keep digging ....'.  There are now
in the UK two kinds of archaeologists.  The majority of archaeological
activity (excavation, fieldwalking, desktop research, building analysis,
etc.) is undertaken as part of the licensed destruction process.  The
developer has to pay for archaeological work as a condition of being
given permission to destroy.

These ('commercial' or 'rescue') archaeological activities should be
framed by a research agenda: i.e. developer decides to build new factory
just outside Swansea.  The archaeological unit which has been given the
work (by a competitive tendering process) and the planning process
itself both contribute to a list of questions which the excavation might
answer.  If, for example, worked flints have been found there in
previous field walking, the investigation might include looking closely
at the Neolithic.  If local legend says that the site was used in the
19th century by charcoal burners, investigation might include looking
closely for traces of that process.

So if local legend says 'Arthur had a castle in that field', then the
research agenda will possibly say 'is there any evidence of
fortification, or other use, in a period which might be considered
'Arthurian' - i.e. from about 200 to about 1200.  That is not the same
thing at all as looking for Arthur.  But it will come through to the
popular press that the archaeologists are looking for Arthur!

The other kind of archaeological investigation is 'research
archaeology', carried out by universities and avocational
archaeologists.  Here the site is chosen, in part, for its potential to
answer questions in a research framework. The research agenda might
include questions where 'Arthur' is mentioned - but this would, I think,
never be 'Did Arthur live here?' or 'Did Arthur exist?'.  Rather, they
would be translating 'Arthur' in local tradition to 'early occupation',
and asking what material remains might have prompted the tradition, or
the tradition may be recalling.

Similarly, now that Arthur is given an early post-Roman date, many
research questions that are addressing that period are translated (by
the media, or by archaeologists) into 'Arthur', because that will give
the public some idea of 'when' they are looking: e.g. 'what use was made
of this Roman fort in the early post-Roman period' becomes 'Did Arthur
use this fort?'

So, I am afraid, for the writer, the answer is that archaeologists are
not looking for Arthur _anywhere_, rather than that they are looking
particularly hard in Wales.  When we have the luxury of choosing the
questions for ourselves, we have much more interesting ones to deal with
than 'Where was Camelot?'

With best wishes,

Pat

(research student in archaeology, asking questions about how people
identified themselves as 'Dutch' outside of the Low Countries in the
1600s and 1700s)

--
Pat Reynolds
pat at caerlas.demon.co.uk
   "It might look a bit messy now,
                    but just you come back in 500 years time"
   (T. Pratchett)

==============================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================