LL-L "Etymology" 2004.06.10 (05) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
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From: Wim <wkv at home.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.06.10 (03) [E]

>>From wkv at home.nl
Wim verdoold

Hi,

The word in dutch,  schamper comes to my mind, as in  "een schampere
opmerking"  a mocking like remark.  It has to do with the german word
schimpfen I think,

Hope this is of any help...

Wim.

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From: Gustaaf Van Moorsel <gvanmoor at aoc.nrao.edu>
Subject: false friends

Gabriele Kahn <globalmoose at t-online.de> wrote:

(...)

 > So I was looking for the toilet in a restaurant, and couldn't come up
with
 > the Dutch word for "loo", which is "plee" - I used the German word "Klo"
 > instead and modified it to sound more Dutch. So I told my somewhat
 > bewildered father-in law: "Ik ga even het klootje zoeken", which means
 > something like "Excuse me while I go look for the testicle".

A great story to start off the morning!  It made me curious about
the etymology of the word 'plee' (which, by the way, I think is a
coarser term than 'loo').  I found the following link, though I
cannot vouch for its veracity:

http://www.wiedenhof.nl/ul/tk/pbl/mssm/stellg11.htm

Gustaaf

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: False friends

Thanks, Wim.

Again, I wrote:

> I wonder about the origin of the Lowlands Saxon (Low German) verb
> _schamfeyren_ (<schamferen> ~ <schamfeern>) 'to bitch' ('to complain
> loudly'); 'to scold', 'to shame'; 'to spoil', 'to vandalize'.  It is
> constructed like a Romance loan (/-eir-/), but I wonder if it is made up
to
> seem like one, perhaps a blend of German _schimpfen_ (Missingsch [SImfm],
LS
> _schimpen_) 'to scold' and native _schaam_ 'shame' and _(sik) schamen_ 'to
> be ashamed'.  Does anyone know?

I should have said that _schamfeyren_ (<schamferen> ~ <schamfeern>) is
especially used in many of the dialects of Mecklenburg (Mekelborg).

I am particularly puzzled by the "f", which seems very non-native.

Elsewhere, this equivalent is prevalent: _schandeyren_ (<schandeern> ~
<schanneern>), obviously related to _schande_ ~ _schanne_ (<Schanne>)
'shame', 'disgrace', originally also 'destruction', 'ruin', preserved in
_tou schannen maken_ (<toschannen maken>) 'to destroy', 'to ruin'.  Perhaps
_schandeyren_ (<schandeern> ~ <schanneern>), too, plays a role in the
creation of _schamfeyren_ (<schamferen> ~ <schamfeern>)?

Hoi, Gabriele and Gustaaf!

> I used the German word "Klo"

As you probably already know, German _Klo_ ([klo:]) comes from
(_Wasserklosett_ > W.C. ?) _Klosett_ < Old French diminutive _closet_ or
from its base form _clot_ (< Latin _clausum_ > German _Klause_ 'hermitage',
'(monk's/nun's) cell', 'retreat (for solitude)'; '(mountain) defile').
_Closet_ originally denoted a small room for privacy, hence also English
"closet," nowadays (certainly in North America) mostly used for a built-in
storage space, especially for clothing (or a "broom closet" for cleaning
supplies, etc.).  So, you'd better not ask your host for the _Klosett_ if
you want the "loo" or "bathroom" in an English-speaking home.

Interestingly, in Lowlands Saxon (Low German) one of the many words for
"loo" or "bathroom" is _paddemang_ ~ _partemang_, assumedly from French
_appartement_ (< Latin _appartîmentum_), from which also English _apartment_
is derived.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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