LL-L "False friends" 2004.06.11 (05) [D/E]

Fri Jun 11 19:37:42 UTC 2004

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Ed Alexander <edsells at cogeco.ca>
Subject: LL-L "False friends" 2004.06.11 (01) [E]

At 07:30 AM 06/11/04 -0700, Troy Sagrillo wrote:
>The "sick" vs. "ill" issue in English has to do with US vs. British
>varieties. In North American English "sick" *primarily* means "suffering
>from or affected with an illness", so it is completely normally to say
>"doctor, I feel sick" or "I am sick; I can't come to work to day". It can
>also mean "mentally ill or disturbed" (informally in "one sick puppy"
>meaning "crazy person"), but this is a secondary usage.
>
>In my Dutch class, the instructor (who is more familiar with British
>English) went out of his way to explain that Dutch "ziek" means "ill" not
>"sick", much to the confusion of his American and Canadian students...

Then we have the famous seemingly contradictory senses of "homesick" and
"seasick", as well as the somewhat confusing sentence one sometimes sees in
church bulletins, requesting prayers for "the sick of this parish."

Finally, perhaps under False Friends as well, "Ile de France" does not mean
"Sick of France."

Ed Alexander, Hamilton, Ontario

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From: Utz H. Woltmann <uwoltmann at gmx.de>
Subject: LL-L "False friends" 2004.06.11 (01) [E]

>From: Jorge Potter <jorgepot at prtc.net>
>Subject: "False friends"
>
>Hello all !
>When I look onto Ron's list I experience that there are false friends at
>least between different Low Saxon variants:

Moin alltohoop,

today I read in the webedition of the "Leeuwarder Courant" the following
headline:
"Koeien alleen naar buiten voor Slachte"

I translated it for myself to LS as "Keuh  alleen na buten to´n  Slachten"

That was a "false friend".  The text furthermore was:
"KUBAARD - Langs de Slachtedyk lopen morgen veel koeien speciaal voor
deze dag buiten voor de deelnemers van het wandelfestijn. De organisatie
heeft de veehouders gevraagd hun koppels de wei in te sturen om het
landschap te verfraaien. Veel agrariërs houden hun koeien normaal op
stal...."

That reminded me to a place in Bremen which is called "Schlachte" or
"Slachte". That was the first harbour of Bremen and nothing more like a
wall at the waterfront where ships were bound and loaded. I think this
"Slachte" is more related to this Dutch "Slachte" as it is "Slachter",
"slachten", Slachtköst" or even "Slacht".

I know from Dutch another word which contains "slacht"; it is
"slachtoffer". That seems to be more related to the LS "Slacht",
isn´t it? I wonder what is the origin and connection between them.
Does anybody know?

Best regards
Utz H. Woltmann

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: False friends

Utz,

In the Lowlands Saxon (Low German) dialects of the Bremen and Oldenburg
(Ollenborg) regions, _Slacht(e)_ [slaxt(@)] (f., pl. _Slachten_) means or
used to mean 'bank reinforcement (wall)'.  It still occurs in street names
in that region.

The other _Slacht_ [slaxt(@)] (f., pl. _Slachten_), used in all dialects,
means battle, is thus related to Dutch and Afrikaans _slag_ and to English
"slaught" (formerly "slaucht" < Middle English _slaƺt_ ~ _slaht_ < Old
English _sleaht_) and "slaughter."  Cf. Old English _slaga_ 'murderer', thus
"slayer" (< "slay" < _slé-a_, cf. LS _slagen_ ~ _slaan_ 'beat', 'slay',
etc.).  The _-t(e)_ or _-d(e)_ is a deverbal noun suffix.  So it should
really be spelled _slagd(e)_, _Schlagt_, etc.

LS _Slachter_ (lit. "slayer" or "slaughterer") for 'butcher' survived in
North German _Schlachter_, one of those words that shows up a North German
speakers as opposed to Southerners who use words like _Metzger_ (lit.
"slaughterer"), _Fleischer_ ("flesh-er," "meat-er") or _Fleischhauer_
("flesh-/meat-chopper").

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject: "False friends" [E]

> From: Tom <jmaguire at pie.xtec.es>
> Subject: LL-L "False friends" 2004.06.10 (09) [E]
>
> > <>R. F. Hahn wrote:
> >
> > Anyway, this name has always puzzled me. "Hospital for *Sick* Children?"
> > Is there one for healthy children as well? How about "Children's
Hospital"
>
> As for Andy Eagle's remark about sick children, 'gruesome' is not an
> appropriate description in my opinion. 'Poignant' or 'tragic' might be
> words that spring to mind when thinking of the guests these hospitals
> harbour.

When I said the Scots use of "sick" was like the Dutch "ziek", gruesomeness
never crossed my mind. It's just that in Scots it's more usual to use "seek"
where in English one might rather say "ill" (though I see from other
submissions that this isn't true of American English after all).

I agree with Tom that "Hospital for Sick Children" is one of the few
examples of a phrase where a euphemism is really necessary.

> From: Jorge Potter <jorgepot at prtc.net>
> Subject: LL-L "False friends" 2004.06.10 (02) [E]
>
> Dear Sandy Fleming/Lowlanders,'
>
> You said:
>
> 'glammer (glamour): in Scots, means "magic".'
>
> But also English 'glamour' comes from Scots 'glammer', which itself comes
> from the Scots for 'grammar' because in those days a magician was also a
> scholar.

Yes, that's the point - the words in my most recent list are cognates, so
you would expect them to be borrowings or have a common ancestry

Sandy
http://scotstext.org/

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From: Ruth & Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: Subject: LL-L "False friends" 2004.06.10 (09) [E]

Dear Sandy Andy & All,

    How old is the Edinburgh Hospital for Sick Children?
I ask because it is comparatively recently that the word 'hospital' applied
only to accommodation for the sick. The word is cognate with 'Hotel' from
the French, in which language it used to mean 'dwelling' - unspecified. What
about Child's Hospital?

> > As in the Royal Edinburgh Hospital for Sick Children.

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