LL-L "Syntax" 2004.06.23 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 23.JUN.2004 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Glenn Simpson <westwylam at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Phrases

Dear all,

I've been doing some transcription of tapes & have
become aware of a phrase used by a number of people in
the Northumberland area of England. They 'for-to-get'
as in "you needs lots of money 'for-to-get' that car".
Its doesn't mean 'forgotten'. Is this used anywhere
else around the globe.

Gan canny,

Glenn Simpson
Northumbrian Language Society

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Syntax

Hi, Glenn!

It's good to hear from you, as always.

Isn't the phrase "for to get" related to the older "for to"-type of phrases
denoting "in order to" or "with the purpose of"?

   Oh, I went down South
   FOR TO SEE my Sal
   ...
                    (Polly Wolly Doodle)

   ...
   She's lying at the quay
   FOR TO TAKE our Pat with a shovel on his back
   To the shores of Botany Bay
   ...
                    (Botany Bay)

I have a feeling this type of phrase is not unusual in Germanic language
varieties.  In German you use the construction _um ({object}) zu
{infinitive}_, thus _um den Wagen zu kaufen_ 'in order to (be able to) buy
that car'.  Likewise, in Lowlands Saxon (Low German) you can us the
construction _üm ({object}) tou {infinitive}_, thus _üm den wagen tou
köypen_ for the same thing (though this sounds somewhat _geel_ "yellow,"
i.e., German, more colloquial being conditional _wen den wagen köypen wult_
"if you want to buy that car").

Might this type of phrase have been petrified in the set phrase "for to get"
in Northumbrian?

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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