LL-L "Syntax" 2004.06.23 (09) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 23.JUN.2004 (09) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Andy (Scots-Online) <andy at scots-online.org>
Subject: LL-L "Syntax" 2004.06.23 (02) [E]

Glenn Simpson wrote: Subject: Phrases

> I've been doing some transcription of tapes & have
> become aware of a phrase used by a number of people in
> the Northumberland area of England. They 'for-to-get'
> as in "you needs lots of money 'for-to-get' that car".
> Its doesn't mean 'forgotten'. Is this used anywhere
> else around the globe.

Its used in Scots meaning 'in order to'.

see http://www.scots-online.org/grammar/verbs.htm

Caw cannie,

Andy Eagle

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From: Glenn Simpson <westwylam at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: syntax[E]

Ron,

On the 'for-to-get' phrase, I think that you're right
that it may have become 'petrified' in certain
localities. Actually I should have written it in
Northumbrian 'fo'-tu-get' as it tends to be used that
way most often. I think a lot of Northumbrian is
language that has remained in use but died out
elsewhere.

Interesting to see that other lowlands languages are
similar.

Keep ahaad,

Glenn

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From: Ruth & Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Syntax" 2004.06.23 (02) [E]

Dear Glenn Simpson & Reinhard

 Subject: Phrases

> I have a feeling this type of phrase is not unusual in Germanic language
> varieties.  In German you use the construction _um ({object}) zu
> {infinitive}_, thus _um den Wagen zu kaufen_ 'in order to (be able to) buy
> that car'.  Likewise, in Lowlands Saxon (Low German) you can us the
> construction _üm ({object}) tou {infinitive}_, thus _üm den wagen tou
> köypen_ for the same thing (though this sounds somewhat _geel_ "yellow,"
> i.e., German, more colloquial being conditional _wen den wagen köypen
wult_
> "if you want to buy that car").

Yes. In Afrikaans we also use the 'om te'
as in, "Om te gaan swem moet jy vêr loop."
"In order to go swimming you must walk far."

Yrs,
Mark

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