LL-L "Morphology" 2004.03.04 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
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From: Roger Thijs, Euro-Support, Inc. <roger.thijs at euro-support.be>
Subject: LL-L "Morphology" 2004.03.05 (04) [D/E/LS]

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Morphology
>
> In Lowlands Saxon of Germany, the old genitive construction you are
talking
> about is obsolete

Hi Ron,
Thanks for your reply.

What I had really in mind was that I have the impression the "weak" form
(cf. German des MenschEN)
became earlier obsolete in lowlands varieties than the "strong" form
(cf. German: des MannES).

A selection of examples in old Dutch,
choosen from the lists published in
A. van Loey,
Middelnederlandse Spraakkunst, I. Vormleer,
1973, Groningen, Tjeenk Willink

Strong flexion (-s) / masculine (samples):
arm
avont
baert
berch
biskop...

Strong flexion (-s) / neuter (samples):
aer (korenaar)
been
berd (plank)
blat
broot...

Weak flexion (-en) / masculine (samples):
ape
are (arend)
bake (ham)
balke
bere...

Weak flexion (-en) / neuter (samples):
aensichte
antwoorde
armoede
bedde
beelde...

So, am I right that the weak forms became obsolete first, or is this a false
impression of mine?

Regards,

Roger

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Morphology

Hi, Roger!

Perhaps I am now catching on, slowly.

> What I had really in mind was that I have the impression the "weak" form
> (cf. German des MenschEN)
> became earlier obsolete in lowlands varieties than the "strong" form
> (cf. German: des MannES).

I have a feeling that that doesn't hold tru in the case of (Lowlands) Saxon
("Low German").

"Strong"-form constructions with which Middle Saxon abounds (e.g., _de dans
des dodes_ "dance of death," 'dance macabre') do not seem to survive in
todays dialects, while some of those using "weak" forms do survive in
certain registers.  Nowadays this would be something like _dey danss vun d'n
dood_ or _d'n dood syn danss_, besides compounded _dey dodendanss_.  On the
other hand, Middle Saxon would have something like _it/dat leven des
menschen_, etc., while _dat leven vun d'n minschen_ or _d'n minschen syn
leven_ are nowadays still possible, though _it/dat leven vun d'n minsch_ or
_d'n minsch syn leven_, besides compounded _it/dat minschenleven_, are
normal-register expressions.

Am I now on track with you?

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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