LL-L "Morphology" 2004.03.08 (03) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: "Roger Thijs, Euro-Support, Inc." <roger.thijs at euro-support.be>
Subject: LL-L "Morphology" 2004.03.04 (02) [E]

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Morphology
> Hi, Roger!
> Perhaps I am now catching on, slowly.
> > What I had really in mind was that I have the impression the "weak"
form
> > (cf. German des MenschEN)
> > became earlier obsolete in lowlands varieties than the "strong" form
> > (cf. German: des MannES).
> I have a feeling that that doesn't hold tru in the case of (Lowlands)
Saxon
> ("Low German").
> "Strong"-form constructions with which Middle Saxon abounds (e.g., _de
dans
> des dodes_ "dance of death," 'dance macabre') do not seem to survive in
> todays dialects, while some of those using "weak" forms do survive in
> certain registers.  Nowadays this would be something like _dey danss vun
d'n
> dood_ or _d'n dood syn danss_,[...]
> Am I now on track with you?

Hi Ron,
Thanks for replying.

I didn't have the syntax in mind but just the suffix used for the flexion
of the noun.

For the use of "strong" and "weak", these words are used here similarely
as
the Germans qualify for the flexion of nouns.
Strong: der Tag, der Kamm, das Jahr
Weak: der Mensch, der Hase

The weak "-en" suffix was apparently more often used in namegiving in the
East, where the West (of Belgium) one rather used the strong flexion on
"-s";
In Limburg a name could rather be: Jan Daenen
In Brabant or in the Flanders the name would rather have been: Jan Daens.

Jan van Daen or Jan Daenszoon could also also be technically correct, but
one used rather and more frequently the flected genitive form for
namegiving. The "van something" name forms generally refer to a placename
rather than to an ancestor.
Since DaenEN was maintained in Limburg, and since Limburg (due to
closiness with Aachen-Köln) was a bit slower in giving up grammatical
complexity, I
was just wondering whether the "-en" suffix generally disappeared earlier
than
the "-s" suffix for flected nouns in Low German varieties for the flected
genitive form (and eventually was replaced with "-s" for as long as the
genitive flexion of the noun survived).

Regards,
Roger

PS. In popular namegiving in Vliermaal (Belgian Limburg), in the fifties,
the "popular" family name rather preceded the Christian name:
(the "real" familyname was something legally frozen, generally hardly
known)
e.g. Cloesen Lemmeke:   Little Lambert, sun of Klaas [Neven]
e.g. Nolles Gus:   August, sun of Arnold [Thijssen]

This reversal was not applied for other forms of namegiving:
e.g. Gra vande Velthin:    Gerard from the Velthin farm.
e.g. Dzjang vande Nögebonder:   Jan from a specific nine "bunder" sized
area.

"Van" for ancestors occured when the ancestor was not born in the
municipality.
My grandfather was born in Hoeselt, so my fathers name became:
Dzjef van Piër Tais,    and mine:
Rozjé van Dzjef van Piër Tais.
My grandfather still lived in our house when I was born, so I guess this
explains his continued presence in my namegiving.
My family name Thijs is generally pronounced:
    Teis in Dutch
    Tais in local Limburgish
    Tüüs in German
    Tiess in French.
In English they generally are so kind to ask how it is pronounced, but
then the "Teis", as I give, is rather pronounced "Tais" anyway. So I don't
care, since this is Limburgish after all.

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