LL-L "Phonology" 2004.03.17 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 17.MAR.2004 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: Gaidheal <gaidheal at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2004.03.16 (06) [E]


Feasgar math, a Lowlanders;

Thanks, Ben and Ron. I think I've got the hang of unaspirated /t/ and /k/,
though practice is still required. /p/ is a major difficulty though. I'll
have to keep working hard at it!

Beannachdan,
Uilleam Òg mhic Sheumais

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From: Theo Homan <theohoman at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2004.03.16 (01) [E]

> From: Gaidheal <gaidheal at yahoo.com>
> Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2004.03.15 (02) [E]
>
> Feasgar math, a Lowlanders;
>
> Ron said:
> "In Dutch (as in all Romance languages, for example)
> this aspiration does
> not occur."
>
> My question for you, if you can help me out here, is
> how does an American
> learn to stop aspirating? I'm ever looking for ways
> to improve my
> pronunciation (though I recognize this is not
> something that will bar me
> from being understood in French or any other Romance
> language). And there's
> also the problem of recognizing aspiration: I've
> never been able to when I
> listen to Indic languages, nor have I been able to
> accurately pronounce
> aspirated and unaspirated consonants.
>
> Mòran taing,
> Uilleam Ã'g mhic Sheumais

Hello,

Here is my penny:

Talking in physics: Aspiration is a proces  of
over-pressure [is this still called 'effective
pressure' in english?] that you let out. In fact the
same process as the 'normal' p/t/k, but you let out
more air, or: in a shorter time.

When the Norwegians made a orthography for Lappish
[samek] they didn't write initial p/t/k as p/t/k , but
as b/d/g, to avoid that the norwegians would pronounce
it with 'strong' aspiration and that would be very
non-lappish. So they would not write 'Theo' but 'Deo',
just to get the pronunciation a bit right.

So maybe it helps for you to change in mind the
initial consonants p/t/k in b/d/g; and to pronounce
'Theo' [and so on...], you think 'Deo'.

Thank you.

vr.gr.
Theo Homan

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Phonology

It's interesting to find out how different people regard and describe
aspiration.

Good to know that we got you well on your way to non-aspiration land,
Uilleam.  Now please go off into your corner and practise, somewhere out of
earshot, because I don't want you to get confused by what I'll say now.

Theo:

> So maybe it helps for you to change in mind the
> initial consonants p/t/k in b/d/g; and to pronounce
> 'Theo' [and so on...], you think 'Deo'.

I'm not so sure if this is so advisable, because we wouldn't *really* want
Uilleam and other people with his "problem" to lose their sense of voiceless
and voiced plosives being distinctly different, given also that the
languages we are talking about require you to observe this difference.

> Talking in physics: Aspiration is a proces  of
> over-pressure [is this still called 'effective
> pressure' in english?] that you let out. In fact the
> same process as the 'normal' p/t/k, but you let out
> more air, or: in a shorter time.

This is an interesting explanation.  It may be useful when we talk about
Germanic languages only.  Language-universally, however, I am not so sure if
it holds water.  There are languages, especially in Southern Asia, in which
not only voiceless plosives can be aspirated but voiced ones as well.  This
is the case in most Indo-Aryan languages (which belong to the Indo-European
family as well).  Thus, you can get series like m-b-bh-p-ph, n-d-dh-t-th,
and ng-g-gh-k-kh.  Surely we can't speak about "over-pressure" in the case
of voiced plosives.  Or can we?  Or do you think this is a different
phenomenon?  Also, consider that in the Min-Chinese language ("Hokkien" or
"Fukienese") you have the series m-b-p-ph (where ph is an aspirated /p/).

Let me ask speakers of Low Franconian language varieties and of other
language varieties that do not use aspiration.  How was or is it for you to
learn English, German, Scandinavian and other Germanic languages in which
aspiration is (usually) required.  Is it difficult for you to use
aspiration?  Do you even bother to learn and use it (given the fact that you
can usually be understood without using it)?

Regards,
Reinhard/Ronh

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