LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.03.23 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 23.MAR.2004 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Mathieu. van Woerkom <Mathieu.vanWoerkom at student.kun.nl>
Subject: Language varieties

Roger wrote:

> > Low German, dialects South of these two lines are considered High
> > German.
> > Limburgish is situated right in between those two dialectical lines,
> > by the way.
>
> Let me refer to some maps on my own website(s). You will find similar
> maps on other places on the web.
>
> The main pages start with:
> http://home-13.tiscali-business.nl/%7Etpm09245/lang/langbel.htm
> Pages still to move start at:
> http://www.euro-support.be/langbel/langbel.htm

Those maps are very nice indeed. I oversimplefied the dialectical borders
between Low German and High German a bit, to make it more understandable :-)

> It is my opinion much around these isoglosses has to do with politics.

I agree, the entire language-dialect-issue has everything to do with
politics,
hasn't it? After all, why do Dutch linguists stop analyzing the so-
called "Dutch dialects" right at the Dutch-German border? (!) They should
know
better... Why are linguists so fierce in defending the Dutch language-unity,
by
the way?

I'm very sad (or mad?) to see a lot of linguists call Limburgish and the Low
Saxon varieties of the Netherlands 'dialects of Dutch', and make that the
input
of their research, instead of the shared features of the language varieties
on
both sides of the border.

Lots of things have changed for the better, though...

regards!
Mathieu

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Ha, die Mathieu!

I quite agree with what you say above.

The same applies to Northern Germany.  "Low German" dialects are supposed to
magically stop smack east of the German-Netherlands border.  (That they
nowadays stop at the Danish and Polish borders is based on fact, on the
results of political events.)

Being hard-pressed by Netherlands citizens having begun to participate in
"Low German" literature competitions on the German side (hurray!) and by the
evident closeness between the dialects on both sides of the border, some
organizations in Germany at least have made some sort of consession by now
referring to the dialects on the Netherlands side by the Dutch name
"Nedersaksisch."  It's a sort of wishy-washy compromise:
quasi-acknowledgement of inclusion while avoiding offending those who still
stick to the delusion that countries, ethniticities, cultures and languages
do or should coincide.   We have to be grateful for small blessings, I
suppose.  This sort of compromise solution is better than the usual
rejection, spoken or silent, sometimes even hostile.

We mustn't forget that Europe is a very territorial-minded region in which
national ideals traditionally quash regional and minority cultures,
languages and identities (oh, and beliefs).  It seems to me that the
majority of Europeans, including those that themselves are adversely
affected by this, have been so strongly and so recently conditioned to this
sort of nationalist mindset that it will take quite some effort and time to
make them embrace unification in the European Union and ratification of the
European Language Charter, accepting the dwindling significance of national
boundaries.

EU, shmee-yoo ... apparently, some people in Germany feel quite threatened
by attempts at getting people to (re-)unite across borders.  "Suspicious"
activities include organizing contacts between Lowlands Saxon ("Low German")
speakers across national borders.  Also offensive are activities such as
those of Lowlands-L that includes Lowlands Saxon but excludes German while
putting the former into contact with its genealogically closer relatives
outside Germany.   Despite official recognition of the language, some
people, even native speakers, in Germany seem to think that these are signs
of disloyalty or treason, the tip of the iceberg of some sinister,
secessionist ploy.  In other words, they simply do not get it.   On a
certain level of consciousness they must be aware that their position is
hard to defend and are likely to be eroded.  This is when they show their
supposed trump card: "You should be careful.  Dutch-German relations are
still at a very sensitive point, you know ..." -- implying that it is the
people in the Netherlands that are the problem.   While I do not doubt that
there are still plenty of Netherlanders that aren't exactly in love with
Germany, I personally have *never* experienced rejection of the idea to
increase Lowlands Saxon contacts and collaboration on the part of Lowlands
Saxon speakers and writers in the Netherlands, and this involves many
people, ages 19 to 84.  I have experienced rejection and other sorts of
kneejerk reaction only from Germans.  I can certainly accept people's
personal hesitance with new ideas and their nationalism (as long as it does
not involve victimization).  What I cannot accept are smoke screens that
involve blaming others as an excuse for one's own opinions.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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