LL-L "Anniversary" 2004.11.03 (01) [E]

Wed Nov 3 17:53:42 UTC 2004

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L O W L A N D S - L * 03.NOV.2004 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at worldonline.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Anniversary" 2004.11.02 (10) [E]

>>>>> Kedves Ron
Kenneth sent me a few of his recordings the last few days. Gronings,
Stellingwerfs and MS.
He personally made several Middelsprake versions, to which I added my
commends.
Although his latest version is not bad, I want to record the MS version my
self, because I know exactly
how it must be pronounced etc, that is hard to explain to someone else.

So Ron, I'd appreciate it if you would not add Kenneth's MS version in the
map, but wait for mine.
Kenneth and I will make an appointment after my recovery to record the MS
and Drenthish versions at his place in Groningen.

Szia, Ingmar

> I am about to add some more there, mostly with the help of Kenneth Rohde
> Christiansen.  (Thanks, Kenneth!)  Please keep watching that space.
>
> For our Lowlands-L anniversary project we will reformat it and display it
> with maps and sound files at our LL-L site.  Versions in non-Lowlands
> varieties are welcome, but as far as sound files are concerned, we'll
first
> see for how many sound files in Lowlands varieties we'll have room on the
> server before we consider adding sound files in non-Lowlands varieties.

----------

From: Steven Hanson <hanayatori at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Anniversary

What kind of deadline are we looking at?  I'd possibly like to try to submit
a sound file.

Steven Hanson

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From: Henry Pijffers <henry.pijffers at saxnot.com>
Subject: LL-L "Anniversary" 2004.11.02 (11) [E]

Ron wrote:
>
> Please send your sound and text files to Henry, with copies to me (for the
> sake of security).
>
Please also state your age and the place where the dialect is from
(placename and general area). The latter is pretty obvious, but the
former was Gary's idea. I think it's a good idea, since dialects can
vary greatly depending across different ages.

Oh, and if you use a non-standard orthography, please also mention that.

Anything else people should add Ron?

regards,
Henry

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From: Szelog, Mike <Mike.Szelog at CITIZENSBANK.com>
Subject: Anniversary/The Wren - New England Version

Hello all,

I've tried my hand at rendering the story of The Wren into my native
accent/dialect of New England, specifically, New Hampshire.

There is no standard way of spelling this accent/dialect, though if any of
you have ever read anything by Stephen King, he does use a written version a
bit in his books.

It's virtually impossible to render the very distinctive N/E intonation in
the written word, so you'll have to be on the lookout for the sound file
once this great project is up and running.

One of the things you'll notice right away is that we have a very marked
postvocallic 'r' deletion!

This version is only one of what could be quite a few from New England -
I've tried to include a few words and phrases that are typical of New
Hampshire, but they're also heard in Maine and Vermont as well. Most are
heard in Massachusetts, but I dare say, probably not in Rhode Island or
Connecticut - though geographically New England, the speech, in my opinion,
is not. If given to ten different people in New England, you'd end up with
ten different versions.

The Wren

The wren, used to keep his nest in the cawnah (corner) of the bahn. One
time, the oldah bööds (birds) both flew out - they hahd wanted to get a dite
ta eat fowah theyah yowens (kids/"young ones")  and hahd left them all
alone.

Ahftah a while, Fahthah Wren came bahk home to the nest.

"What hahppened he-yah?" he says. "Who hahmed you, guys? You all look like
you hahd the bejesus scayahd outta you!"

"Oh, Dad," they said, "some huge monstah came by just a few minutes ago. He
was wicked scary! He stayahd into ouwah nest and hahd these wicked huge eyes
and really scayahd us some goo-ud!

"Ayuh, I see," Fahthah Wren says, "wheyah'd he go?"

"Well," they said, "he went thaht way - down thayah in the woods."

"Wait heyah!" Fahhah Wren said, "I'm goin' ahftah him. Don't you worry now,
kids, I'll get him some goo-ud." With thaht said, he stahted to fly from his
nest.

So he flew föthah (further) inta the w

while came upon a wildcaht.

But the wren wahn't scayahd one bit. He lands on the wildcat's bahk and
stahts layin' inta him. "What business do you hahve comin' to my house," he
says, "and scayahrin' the bejesus outta my yowens?!"

The wildcaht pays no attention to the bööd and just keeps on standin'
theyah.

That just ticks that loud mouth off wös (worse) and he lays it into thaht
joe-jeezly wildcaht some wicked - even hahdah then befowah. "Now you listen
heyah Mistah May-an - you have no business bein' thayah whatsoevah! And if
you dayah come bahk, "he says, "well, then you'll see - I don't want to do
it, " he says and stahts to lift one of his legs, "but I'd bust yowah bahk
some goo-ud with my leg in a second!"

Aftah sayin' thaht, he flew right bahk to his nest.

"Theyah, kids", he says, "I taught thaht joe-jeezly wildcat a lesson some
wicked goo-ud. He won't dayah evah be bahk heyah."

NOTES

The use of 'ö' here is not 100% the actual sound, it's actually more the IPA
[3] with a heavy r-coloring.

One of the peculiarities of New England speech that can't be reflected in
spelling is the distinct New England intonation.

The word "wicked" in New England speech is an intensifier; it's meanings
vary, but it's usually "translated" as "very".

"Joe-jeezly" is one of many quintessential New England expressions that best
'translates' as "awful" or  "darn".

"Mr. Man"/Mistah May-an  - sort of a perjorative way to refer to someone
directly.

As you can see, one of the main aspects of the New England accent/dialect is
the postvocalic 'r' deletion - of course, we need some place to put all
these 'r's so if a word ends in -a, it's generally pronounced as if ending
in -ar; it's "Floridar isn't fah from Cubar  - thaht's wheyah Marthar
lives." (Florida isn't far from Cuba - that's where Martha lives).

To make this *really* New England, you could very well substitute "moose"
for the "wildcat" (though we certainly do have wildcats here!)

Ron, I have the file t
placed your e-mail address -
can you please, at your convenience, resend it to me so I can send you the
file.

Thanks,

Mike S
Manchestah, N' Hampsha - USA

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net>
Subject: Anniversary

Folks,

I thought I sent out a postscript after my last message in this thread
yesterday, but I don't see any sign of it.  Goodness knows what I did in my
mad rush to get done while watching the US election reports coming in ...

I had indended to make special mention of Gary Taylor who was the one that
came up with the idea for this project.  Gary's enthusiastic support of the
List has been a real thrill and an inspiration.  Cheers, ma'e!

Jó napot kívánok, Ingmar!

> So Ron, I'd appreciate it if you would not add Kenneth's MS version in the
> map, but wait for mine.

I am not going to add any MS sound file to my wren site.  Your request
pertains to the anniversary project.  You ought to take all this up with
Henry (henry.pijffers at saxnot.com), preferably off the List, in private
communication.

Hi, Steven!  Good to hear from you!

> What kind of deadline are we looking at?

Well, the anniversary is in the second half of April and the first half of
May 2005.  (We'll make it an anniversary month, because the beginning didn't
happen overnight.)  So it would be nice to have the project in as good a
shape as possible by the middle of April.  This doesn't mean that we can't
add more material later.

Mike, thanks for the New England version of the Wren.  I'll add it to my
site (http://www.sassisch.net/rhahn/low-saxon/ls-story.html) and will pass
it on to Henry.

Folks, please send all translations and sound files of the wren story to
Henry Pijffers <henry.pijffers at saxnot.com> with a copy to me at
<sassisch at yahoo.com> with "Wren story" in the subject line.  It is far
better to do so than to send it to the List.

Henry:

> Please also state your age and the place where the dialect is from
> (placename and general area). The latter is pretty obvious, but the
> former was Gary's idea. I think it's a good idea, since dialects can
> vary greatly depending across different ages.

Sure, but you need to leave people some choices, "wiggling room."  If they
don't want to state their ages, let that be a choice.  If they want to be
anonymous, that's fine too.  Just write "Anonymous" or "Name Withheld"
instead, or write e.g. "M.S." instead of "Mary Smith," and the like.   This
means that you, like all of us who work for the List, will possibly be privy
to confidential information which you are obligated to keep strictly
confidential if so requested.

> Anything else people should add Ron?

It would be nice to know where the person grew up, if they grew up with more
than one language variety and which ones they are, and in which place or
general area they live now.

People should feel free to be as precise or as vague, as open or as private
as they choose.  We want as many people as possible to help without exerting
pressures on them or compromise their privacy.

Oh, and Mathieu, try to make the web display as clear and plain yet
attractive looking as possible.  Please make the font dark (no light gray or
such) and definitely nothing smaller than 12 points (14 points of the main
portion would be ideal.).  We must consider people with less than average
eyesight.  Besides, my experience has shown that too much information on one
page tends to overwhelm and confuse many readers with the result of them
either being turned off or not seeing the essential information.  So, easy
visibility and overall simplicity are important, also with regard to links.
Also, graphics should download fairly quickly even on older computers with
modem connection.  Alternatively, make a "jazzed-up" version and a text-only
version as choices.  If there are graphics, give them labels/descriptions in
consideration of blind users whose browser programs read such labels.

It would be really great to aim at coming up with phonetic transliterations
as well (in IPA script, possibly as graphics), not only for linguists but
also for deaf people, as alternatives to sound files.  I'll be willing to
help with that.  Is anyone else?

Here is another idea.  When the time comes, we should have a special
anniversary flag or banner on our homepage (http://www.lowlands-l.net) and
link it to an anniversary page.  I will write an anniversary message for it
mentioning the beginning, saying something about the purposes, development
and future plans, and dishing out some acknowledgements.  I hope that
Mathieu, Sandy, Ted and Henry will write their own "blurbs," since they have
been helping with the running of the List.

It would be really nice to have this be followed by some other List members'
brief messages, talking about their experiences with the List and what the
List has done for them.  I am talking about one to two paragraphs (not long
epistles) per person.  You may write these in whatever language variety you
like, any language variety you feel most comfortable with, not just Lowlands
ones.  If they are not in English we may add English translations.  If you
send in your own English translations you would get extra gold stars for
effort.  Yes, Russian, Gaelic, Spanish, Portuguese, Finnish, Estonian, Urdu,
Punjabi, Chinese, Japanese, Arabic, Quechua ... no matter, but then with at
least a rough English translation (though this is not necessary but
appreciated if you write in any Germanic or Romance language, Polish,
Russian, Chinese, Japanese or Korean, because I can translate those if
needed, though I might ask you if I need help).

I am thinking of making it one page per person.  Add to this where you grew
up, where you live now (specifically or generally) and what your interests
are.  If you care to send a photograph of yourself, that would be wonderful,
but you are not obligated to do so.  If you would like your photograph to
show but you have no scanner and no friend that does, please contact me and
I will tell you how to send a print to me for scanning.

Please send your messages (and the scanned pictures) to me at
lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net under the subject line "ANNIVERSARY MESSAGE", and
I will work with you until we get them right.  Yes, anonymous or
semi-anonymous messages are all right too.  You may start on this anytime,
right now if you like, the sooner the better.

Not only would this be a nice celebratory thing to do but it would also give
website visitors a better idea about what to expect from the List and what
not.

Thanks, everyone!
Reinhard "Ron" F. Hahn
Founder & Administrator, Lowlands-L
lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
http://www.lowlands-l.net

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