LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.11.22 (06) [E/LS]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 22.NOV.2004 (06) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From:  Henry Pijffers <henry.pijffers at saxnot.com>
Subject:  LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.11.21 (05) [E/LS]

Ingmar schreev:
>
> Et kan waesen at de Tükkers (=loy uut Twente) duydelik wilt spraeken en
> daorümme de R wal gebruket.
 >
Nee, so warkt daet nit.

> Sal et so können waesen at de Twenten rr segget waor at Nederlandsch
> svarabakti hef.
 >
Absoluyt nit. Laot my nu mear vuyr et Tweants spraekken he ;)

> Ned. dorrep = Tw. dorrp = Went. darp.
 >
Ik gebruke in dorp mear eynen seer kleanen r.

> Ik bün der sekers van at ok de Tükkers _swart_ [svAt'] en _hart_ [hAt']
> segget, sunder R.
> Ned. zwart = Tw. swa(r)t = Went. swo(r)t.
>
Jao, daet is korrekt, in swart (met /z/ aoverigens) en hart(e) is der
geynen r te höyren.

> Et lik mij to at Henry Pyffers wisse et best sol waeten bo dat in Twente
> esekt word, he kümp daor jao her.
>
Daet lik my ok wal jao :)

Ron schreev:
 >
> Henry (above):
>
>> Yes, I would pronounce the r in words such as dorp. Does that make my
>> dialect non-rhotic?
>
> Not if a syllable-final /r/ isn't usually sounded as [r].
>
> I take it you say _lekker_ as "lekka" and _bakker_ as "bakka" at the end
of
> a phrase or if pronounced alone.
 >
Yes, thoese words are without -r. But an r is often inserted if the next
word starts with a vowel.

> How do you say _kark_ (church), _kar_
> (car(t)), _peyrd_ ~ _peerd_ (horse), _barg_ (mountain), _baard_ (beard),
> _warm_ (warm) and _wark_ (work)?
 >
I say [kQArk@], [kQAr@], [pE:At], [bQArx], [bQAt], [wQArm], and [wQArk],
but the r is short in all words in which it is pronounced.
(I didn't know how to exactly transcribe the ao sound before r, so I've
written QA, but it might be something else in IPA, don't know...)

Hmmm, this makes me think. When I was little and just started to speak,
I said [kQkQk] to a church. So maybe back then (30 years ago), my
dialect was less (or totally non-)rhotic than it is now. I'll have to
ask my parents or my uncle when I next see them.

> Ingmar may well be right in postulating that your pronunciation [dorp] is
> underlyingly /dor at p/.
 >
That it is definitely not. Tuekkers don't unsert schwa's where the Dutch do.

> By the way, the word for 'village' (archaic English "thorp") is umlauted
in
> my dialect(s): _dörp_ [d9.6p].
>
Maybe some people in Twente say it with umlaut as well. I don't use the
word much, as I have always lived in a stad.

Oh, by the way, do all Saxon dialects have devoicing of final
consonants? I'm under the impression that in Twents one does not always
devoice those.

Henry

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Henry (above):

> Oh, by the way, do all Saxon dialects have devoicing of final
> consonants? I'm under the impression that in Twents one does not always
> devoice those.

As far as I know they do, but I always appreciate a pleasant surprise.  The
"exception" is in those North Saxon varieties that omit the lexical /-e/.
It must be an active phonological rule.  The final syllable is deleted and
its length is added to the previous syllable, thus resulting in
"superlength" or "overlength" (a rare feature find for instance also in
Wichita, Vora Swedish of Finaland, and Estonian*), also known as "drawl
tone."  In such cases, final devoicing does not take place.  (In other
words, devoicing seems to apply before deletion.)

   deyv [dEIf] 'thief'
   deyv' [dE:Iv] (< deyve) 'thieves'

   bruud [bru(:)t] 'bride'
   bruyd' [bry:.d] (< bruyde) 'brides'

   dag [daX] 'day'
   daag' [dQ:.G] (< dage) 'days'

   hov [hOf] 'yard', 'farm'
   hoev' [h9:.v] (< hoeve) 'yards', 'farms'

   muus [mu(:)s] 'mouse'
   muys' [my:.z] (< muyse) 'mice'

Kumpelmenten,
Reinhard/Ron

* E.g., Estonian _sada_ ['sada] 'hundred' (Finnish _sata_), _saada_ ['sa:da]
'send!' (Finnish *_suoda!_ 'grant!'?), _(`)saada_ ['sa::da] 'to get'
(Finnish _saada_)

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