LL-L "Phonology" 2004.10.29 (01) [A/E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 29.OCT.2004 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: ellen simon <elleninbritain at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2004.10.28 (04) [E]

Thank you for thinking about my question. However, I'm
looking for regressive voice assimilation (RVA) in
fricative + sonorant consonant clusters. The two
examples you give are instances of RVA in fricative +
voiced stop clusters. This type of assimilation is
rather common. I don't think RVA in French is
'possible' in e.g. laisse moi (= fricative + sonorant
consonant clusters /s m/).
Regards,
Ellen

> From: Helge Willkowei <helge.willkowei at gmx.de>
> Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2004.10.27 (01) [E]
>
> > ellen simon <elleninbritain at yahoo.com> schreev:
> > Subject: phonology
>
> > In West-Flemish there is a process of regressive
> voice assimilation in
> > fricative + sonorant consonant (=nasals, liquids
> and glides) clusters
> across
> > word-boundaries. An example:  "'t is waar" (it's
> true) is realized as "'t
> > i[z] waar". This type of regressive voice
> assimilation seems to be
> > relatively rare. In order to understand this
> process better, I'm looking
> for
> > other language varieties in which this type of
> voice assimilation occurs.
>
> I know this from French:
>
> "une tasse de café" [yntazd at kafe] or "la Place de la
> Concorde"
> [laplazd at lako~kORd], where single "tasse" or "place"
> would be pronounced
> with voiceless [s].
>
> -Helge Willkowei

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From: Frédéric Baert <baert_frederic at CARAMAIL.COM>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2004.10.28 (04) [E]

>From: Helge Willkowei <helge.willkowei at gmx.de>
>Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2004.10.27 (01) [E]
>
>> ellen simon <elleninbritain at yahoo.com> schreev:
>> Subject: phonology
>
>> In West-Flemish there is a process of regressive voice assimilation in
>> fricative + sonorant consonant (=nasals, liquids and glides) clusters
>across
>> word-boundaries. An example:  "'t is waar" (it's true) is realized
as "'t
>> i[z] waar". This type of regressive voice assimilation seems to be
>> relatively rare. In order to understand this process better, I'm looking
>for
>> other language varieties in which this type of voice assimilation
occurs.
>
>I know this from French:
>
>"une tasse de café" [yntazd at kafe] or "la Place de la Concorde"
>[laplazd at lako~kORd], where single "tasse" or "place" would be pronounced
>with voiceless [s].
>
>-Helge Willkowei

Hi

I'm very busy since a few months so I cannot participate to discussions as
much as I would want.
But here I have to speak as a french native :
I'm sorry but I have never heard such a pronunciation of "tasse de caf"
or "place de la concorde". I think that pronunciation of a voiceless "s"
in these word would be heard by a french native as a german accent.

By contrast, I confirm the existence of the phenomenon in french flemish.

Best regards
Frederic Baert

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From: Ruth & Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2004.10.13 (08) [A/D/E]

Dear Mark, Jo & Denis,

Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2004.10.13 (05) [A/E]

There is in Afrikaans the fossilised reminder of this change. The name
'Walther' in other tongues is 'Wouter'
in Afrikaans. So also 'goud' for English 'gold', 'sout' for English 'salt' &
'hou' for English 'hold'. but the change did not occur with other likely
words, 'balk' for 'baulk', 'kalk' for 'caulk' (only cognates), 'valk' for
'falcon'.

Yrs,
Mark

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From: Ruth & Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2004.10.26 (07) [A/D/E]

Beste Liza,

Subject: LL-L "Phonology"

> > So, Henry, saam met die hoofletters, 'euROpies'. Hoe maak julle?

> Wy seg "EuropEEs" en "EurOpa". Ik vermoedde al dat jullie "eurOpies"
> zouden zeggen, d.w.z. de klemtoom op dezelfde plaats als in Europa.

> Nou vergewe my dat ek so laat in die gesprek inkom (universiteit hou my
> vreeslik besig). Waar sou 'n mens Europies gebruik, Mark? Ek sê self
> Europees met die klem waar Henry dit aandui.
> Hy is europees / sy is europees / dit is 'n europese kar ens so voorts.
> Het ek dan nog altyd die kat aan stert beet?

Ek wil nie sommer sus of so sê nie, Liza. Mynsinsiens kom 'regte taal' en
'verkeerde taal' bra vaag voor.
kom ek probeer so: euROpa = Europe (the continent), euROpeër = European (the
denizen), euROpies = Europic? (the property of being either of the
aforementioned ? like 'Gothic). English doesn't cover every base.
Dit uit die GROOT WOORDEBOEK, Kritzinger, Steyn etc. Maar hulle maak ook
melding van Europees in die einste plek.

Groete,
Mark

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