LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.09.16 (07) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 16.SEP.2004 (07) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Ruth & Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2004.09.15 (03) [E]

Dear Jan Baskind & All;

Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2004.09.13 (12) [E]

>   BTW, There is only ONE continent, isn't there?

But which ONE?

> Excuse me, Fortress Europe, but in America the same hegemonic monotony is
> known as "Mid-Atlantic English", although I'm rather pleased that it is
> losing ground steadily to the "received pronunciation" -based new European
> variety in the EU. The end of Yankee imperialism, maybe?

> …and here's my vote for Middelsprake as a replacement!

Seconded!

Cheers
Mark

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From: Ruth & Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.09.16 (03) [E]

Dear John Feather,

Subject: Language varieties

> I have searched two online versions of the AS Chronicle and all I can
> find are statements that
> a) there were Frisian pirates at some point
> b) later on dead Frisians are listed with the English dead
> c) Alfred designed ships that were bigger than anyone else's
> d) a dead Frisian called "Ebb" is mentioned.

Welll? I was assuring someone, I forget whom, that there were people known
as Fries around at that time. I will allow I got distracted by ships & the
sailing of them, a subject I also love.

> What am I doing wrong that I can't find what Mark assures us is there?

Your gift, John Feather, is (I take it), that you know the Internet & use it
with skill & finesse. But I am a Babe in the Googlewood. L-Lowlands is my
first real venture into that Unknown. Howevewr, I have been collecting books
for a long time.

It seems to me that the Internet is an inordinately powerful first stage of
a researcher's work: Collection of data. Collation, however, is still done
the old-fashioned way... Books & Journals are still lengths ahead, & please
guys, make those boffins publish!!

> I will keep my views on communication problems in shipbuilding and ship
> operation to myself until I find out if they are relevant.

Good stuff, there, on the internet, but still, if I ever find 'Royce on
Sailing' in Hard, I'm buying it!

Yrs,
Mark

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From: john feather <johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Language varieties

I found the following about that wretched bird's nest on the site I cited
earlier:

>This short text was written in around 1100 by a monk from West Flanders,
living at that time in Rochester Abbey in the county of Kent in England. It
would appear that he took up his new pen and wrote down the first thing that
occurred to him. To make his text intelligible to others he wrote, word for
word, the Latin translation above it.<

If this is true then it's not a translation of a Latin text. But monks did
gloss Latin texts in exactly this way, as in the case of the Wachtendonk
Psalms. I said before that I thought "me and the" would be correct form in
OE after the preposition "buton". But of course Latin "nisi" is a
conjunction so there the words are in the nominative. If the words are
grammatically correct in Latin but not in WestVlaams then the Latin
presumably came first. The answer is probably on the internet but I haven't
looked for it.

The same source says Rochester Abbey is assumed to be the location because
it had close connexions with the West Flanders nobility at this time. Given
also that monks were often trained in one place and sent to another (hence
allegedly some of our funny E spellings created by French-trained monks in
the succeeding centuries) there is no reason to suppose that evidence or
guesswork about what language the laity in a region spoke has any great
significance as regards the people who did the writing.

John Feather  johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk

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