LL-L "Language politics" 2004.09.17 (07) [E]

Fri Sep 17 17:45:33 UTC 2004

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * 17.SEP.2004 (07) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org or lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject: "Language politics" [E]

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Language politics
>
> The closest analogy I can come up with right now is a Cornish, Welsh or
Manx
> person using English in asking a person in Lowlands Scotland for
directions
> and getting a curt "A dinna unnerstaund Southron (~ Sassanach)."

I can't imagine this ever happening.

Is this what we've been talking about all along? I thought my comprehension
of the languages involved was even worse than usual, now I realise that it
was just the situation that was beyond comprehension!

Sandy
http://scotstext.org/

----------

From: Ole Stig Andersen <osa at olestig.dk>
Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2004.09.14 (06) [D/E/Esperanto]

Ron wrote

> Again, it's not a specific American thing.  It's a global thing, and
> it depends on the attitudes (some would say "level of tolerance and
> sophistication") of specific communities and individuals.

In Denmark there is  and has been for years - a massive public pressure on
other lgs (low status lgs, that is, nobody dislikes English, on the
contrary, except when it is invading Danish vocabulary).

Denmark is about the closest you'll come to a "nation"state. Almost
everybody who speaks Danish lives in Denmark and almost everybody who lives
in Denmark speaks Danish. Danish lg competence is universally considered an
indispensable prerequisite for social succes, first and foremost to get a
job. Of course, more native speakers of Danish are unemployed than there are
foreigners in Denmark, but all the same ...

An Albanian/Turkish friend of mine from Macedonia works in a megahospital in
Copenhagen together with a number of others from ex-Yugoslavia with whom she
shares several lgs from childhood, criss-cross. But at work they are all
ordered to speak Danish only, even in casual small-talk. It is widespread
and seen as a matter of course for companies, in this case a public service,
with many immigrant employees to maintain a ban on other lgs than Danish
(and English). They even brag about it and are praised for their
contribution to integration.

Danish lg is universally perceived as the glue that holds together our
well-fare society, our democratic information-sharing, our whole nation, our
polity, our "we". Therefore everybody MUST speak Danish. Preferably all the
time!

For the dominant public understanding appears to liken an individual's lg
capacity to a glass of water. There is only so much space there, and if you
pour in half Arabic there will only be room left for half Danish. This
metaphor may be appropriate for a conversation, I guess, but it is wildly
misleading when it comes to lg competence.

Marginalization at least, eradication at best, is the fundamental goal of
Danish policies and politics toward immigrants' lgs. Lack of Danish 
surmised or real - is used to justify a barrage of infringements on the
living conditions and life quality of Denmark's small immigrant population
(at most 5%). Government and administrative politics target immigrant
languages directly and explicitly. It is discussed openly and publicly 
also in the civilized sections of the media - how to contain the use of
these un-Danish lgs and how to avoid their being passed on to future
generations.

It is obvious to the Danish public that a person who speaks Somali
necessarily must suffer a corresponding lack of Danish, and thus be
disadvantaged in Danish society. We cannot have disadvantaged persons in
this very egalitarian society, so of course his Somali lg must be done away
with, for his own good. Such is the logic by which language discrimination
is implemented in Denmark nowadays. And it is all over.

Internal lgs (barring English) are not seen as a ressource but as a
liability. Tax-payers who (look as if they) have access to these dark
ressources are maligned in a multitude of ways in the public sphere, and at
times even punished administratively and legally.

A couple of years ago the current government did away with the former
obligation of the municipalities to offer some instruction to school kids in
their various mothertongues. Many municipalities have consequently closed
down the classes.

Politicians, ministers, mayors and journalists; teachers, school
psychologists and kindergartens in unison urge foreign lg parents to skip
their mother tongues and speak Danish only. To their children, even at home,
even to each other. "For the future of the kids."

Yesterday, Sept 16th, the Danish Minister for Integration, Bertel Haarder,
announced a draconian fine of up to 30.000 DKr (about 4.000 Euro) for
families with recent immigrants, primarily through marriage, if the newcomer
"doesn't learn Danish".

Also yesterday the Social Affairs spokesperson of the same party demanded
that children brought up "to hate Denmark" (she didn't mean every Arab and
Muslim, not at all, only the wicked ones) should be rescued from their evil
homes by the authorities and brought up with good Danish families. Remind
you of anything?

This ugly phantasy will not prevail  inshallah  but it should illustrate
the current climate in Denmark. Though it oughtn't.

Come to think of it, maybe it's time for the international community to take
a closer interest in what is happening in Denmark, language-wise,
minority-wise, immigrant-wise, human rights-wise.

Ole Stig Andersen
http://www.olestig.dk/english

P.S.

Denmark is of course marginal to this List, although a very sizeable portion
of the Danish vocabulary and even parts of the grammar are of Plattysk / Low
Saxon origin. But, just for your information:

DENMARK'S MAJOR LANGUAGES in thousands
(my assesment, based on a number of public statistical surveys)

Population 5.200

Danish 5.200;
(English is not assessable because almost everybody knows English);
(Swedish and Norwegian are not assessable because of their mutual
intelligibility with Danish);
Arabic 70;
Turkish 60;
Serbian/Croatian/Bosnian 45;
Kurdish/Kurmanji/Sorani 40;
German 30;
Persian/Farsi/Dari, Urdu and Punjabi 20;
Somali 17;
Polish and Chinese 14;
Vietnamese 13;
French, Russian and Tamil 11;
Faroese and Greenlandic 8;
Icelandic, Spanish, Berber/Shelha/Tamazight and Thai/Lao 7;
Sign language, Dutch and Albanian/Tosk/Geg 6;
Pashto and Pilipino/Tagalog 5;
Finnish and Italian 4;
Portuguese, Romanian and Hindi 3.

(Two Lowlands lgs that once had a presence in Southern Denmark, North
Frisian and Platt (Low Saxon), have virtually disappeared. The Danish
dialect Sønderjysk (South Jutish) which Ethnologue considers a distinct lg,
is still viable, used by both the Danish and the German community, but
steadily receding. It has restricted use, close to the body, so to speak; it
is not written and is not used in school, church, politics or media.)

Ole

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language politics

Sandy (above):

> I can't imagine this ever happening.

Nor can I.  This was based on an (apparently local) Austrian refusing
information, claiming not to know German, something that has puzzled me ever
since.

Thanks for the info about Denmark, Ole Stig!

A couple of hospitals here (that shall remain nameless) tried to institute a
foreign language ban, including during workers' off-time.  This was meant to
be primarily an attempt at banning Tagalog, which is predominant after
English in those environment.  I understand that the ban could not be
enforced with regard to private time because it would be unconstitutional,
i.e., would violate people's human rights.

> Also yesterday the Social Affairs spokesperson of the same party demanded
> that children brought up "to hate Denmark" (she didn't mean every Arab and
> Muslim, not at all, only the wicked ones) should be rescued from their
evil
> homes by the authorities and brought up with good Danish families. Remind
> you of anything?

Yep.  Germany, Switzerland (Yenishes), Canada, USA (Native Americans) and
Australia (Aborigines).  I'm sure there are lots more.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

================================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
======================================================================