LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.09.22 (10) [E]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: john feather <johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Language varieties

Gavin commented on the genetic evidence presented in Francis Pryor's TV
programme on the ASs. I recorded it so I was able to have another look at
that part. The key thing in favour of rejecting the data which were
presented in some detail seemed to be the claim of the second group of
geneticists that it was impossible to distinguish AS chromosomal DNA from
Viking/Danish DNA. The sloppy thing about the presentation was that we did
not find out if the first group has an answer to this.

Somewhere I've got a newspaper cutting about a study (also, I think, from
University College London) which looked at mitochondrial DNA and suggested
that people whose grandparents were born here are mostly genetically
British/Celtic and there is very little evidence for invasions of any kind.
But this, of course, is explicable in terms of male invaders killing off
local men and having their wicked way with the womenfolk, which is
politically incorrect but nicely alliterative.

Regarding buildings there's some interesting stuff on the apparent desertion
of Roman London at www.britarch.ac.uk/ba/ba44/ba44regs.html which being
interpreted is an article in _British Archaeology_ No 44 May 99.

On the linguistic side the complete lack of _anything_ written during the
supposed transitional period is odd. Literacy seems too valuable to be given
up as a conscious choice.

John Feather johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk

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From: Thomas <t.mcrae at uq.net.au>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.09.20 (09) [E]

Tom <jmaguire at pie.xtec.es> wrote
> Should that be crabbit "git", Tom? Or is "get" an Edinburgh word?
If it's on a blue 't' shirt it must be true but Edinburgh and I suspect
Glasgow use 'Get'. 'Git' in fact refers to 'Get' eg "Ah'll git the polis tae
yew !"
I recall a tale of the 1950's about a Glasgow drunk yelling at a Pakistani
bus conductor "Gerroot Ye Orange get Ye !." Glasgwegians lack Edinbourgeois
refinement. :-)
Regards
Tom
Tom Mc Rae PSOC
Brisbane Australia
"The masonnis suld mak housis stark and rude,
To keep the pepill frome the stormes strang,
And he that fals, the craft it gois all wrang."
>>From 15th century Scots Poem 'The Buke of the Chess'

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From: Thomas <t.mcrae at uq.net.au>
Subject: Language Varieties

I have always regarded Scotland's rejection of Lowland Scots as being due to
English enforcement of their perfect language but it seems we have our own
18th century intellectuals to blame on the move.
I've jst read two fascinating books "How the Scots Invented the Modern
World" by Arthur Herman and, to me the better "Capital of the Mind" by James
Buchan tell how after the Union of 1707 Scots philosophers began spreading
their knowledge round the world via books and disciples. Doyens of this
group including David Hume and Adam Smith decided Lowland Scots was a
handicap tothem when they were communicating South of the Border and a
movement to propagate correct English quickly evolved. There were even
English elocutionists opening schools in Edinburgh to help folks speak
correctly. The end result can still be seen today with our Lords and their
offspring speaking with plummy English accents. Tony Blair is another good
example of this.
Common folks however continued speaking as their ancestiors had done despite
determined efforts to get even them On Line.
I recommend both the above books but favour the latter, us Scots really do
have a lot to be proud of.
Regards
Tom
Tom Mc Rae PSOC
Brisbane Australia
"The masonnis suld mak housis stark and rude,
To keep the pepill frome the stormes strang,
And he that fals, the craft it gois all wrang."
>>From 15th century Scots Poem 'The Buke of the Chess'

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Is anyone aware of any DNA studies conducted in Germany and the Netherlands?
I'd be particularly interested in the extent of Slavonic and Celtic spread.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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