LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.09.22 (05) [E]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Ruth & Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.09.21 (02) [E]

Dear John & All,

Subject: Language varieties

Not having seen the programme, I'll have to defer to your judgement, which
I'm not unwilling to do, & it sounds like revisionism to me.

But you know how it is, the best lie sails as close to the truth as it can.

His basic thesis is that the V Bede invented a myth about the
> origin of English Christianity - that the Roman church converted an island
> of AS heathens, whereas in fact Romano-British Christianity was already
here
> in the form of the Celtic/Irish Church.

One thing - it doesn't seem to me Bede had it in him to lie, but it tickles
this Paleographic dilettante (myself) that the AS script is heavily based on
the Insular Half Uncial of the Irish Church, rather than the Continental
Roman Uncial, favoured until the semi-renaissance of Charlemagne. We do know
that these two churches were not in communion - something to do with the
dating of Easter & the Pelagian heresy...

> Apparently genetic evidence will currently
> support the idea that the main bloodlines were Germanic and that they were
> Celtic.

I would be wary of the genetic evidence. For one thing, The British isles
were fully occupied before the Celtic invasions. The established genetic
pool remains dominant even if all else goes the way of the conqueror. Genes
will tell us more about the post-Wurm population that moved into an empty
land than it ever can about subsequent conquerors. Moreover; the Continental
Teutons, in two great expansions, the first to their pre-migratory locations
& the second, the Migratory Period movements (with substantial drift before,
between & after), moved in over two previous Celtic expansions, the Halstatt
& La Tène. The Continental bloodlines were already well stirred up before
the move to the British Isles. I suspect the more isolated genetic strains
in the British Isles owe most to an even earlier pre-Indo-Germanic genetic
heritage: Those who reputedly forged the mysterious non-Germanic words
'*skalk', & '*meadow'. Would they have been closer to Basques; or Berbers? I
reckon a thousand years, a mere 33 generations, would not show significant
drift between Continental Gaels & Teutons, even less their Insular
counterparts. I don't think genetic evidence is appropriate to the argument
on either side.

>Pryor chooses to believe they were Celtic and the shifts in culture
> and language arose because after the Romans left the Brits decided to
adopt
> modern Continental ways.

It's not what I would choose! Incidentally, those who wish to pontificate on
the Dark Ages of Europe should have a good look at the developments in
post-Colonial Africa. The most significant feature of the Germanic expansion
was not conquest by the lower culture, but the withdrawal of the higher. In
those days the 'Romans' just moved; to the mountains of Wales, to the North,
to the Eastern Empire of Constantinople; Africa (for a while) & also
Ireland, & a progressive flight to the Continent, from Amorica (Brittany) to
ever-remoter inland reaches away from the Vikings: The Brotherhood of St
Gall ended up in Switzerland!)

The tragic point of higher culture is that it is a product of nurture vested
in the community. One cannot leave it behind. If the community withdraws,
those who displaced them haven't the inculcated means to maintain it:
Result -
collapse. Of course  power brokers will reserve as much as they can of the
higher culture for the purpose of Administration. In this Our Africa it is
the 'Expatriate' European (Heaven forbid that he be called a settler!) & in
the Dark Ages of Europe it was the Church)

I await with interest the comment of linguists in the matter of the language
issues, proffering only one query: Does the Good Doctor have Medieval Welsh?
I distrust one-sided scholarship.

Yr. Sincerely,
Mark

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From: john feather <johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: LANGUAGE VARIETIES

I've had a look at Francis Pryor's book of his TV series. He has very little
to say in it about the origins of English, claiming that he has no
linguistic expertise. He says (roughly) that the words and grammar of OE are
not solely Germanic, though he fails to say that non-Germanic traces are
pretty scarce even if some have been overlooked in the past. Obviously we
are not talking here about later ecclesiastical borrowings and innovations.
Katie Lowe's name is not in the index.

John Feather johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk

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