LL-L "Etymology" 2004.09.23 (10) [E]
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Jenny Kool <j.kool at reginacoeli.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.09.21 (06) [E]
> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Etymology
>
> Jenny (above):
>
> > In the Netherlands, we use the same word as in German:
> > "wecken". The process of "wecken" of fruits and veggies was
> done a lot
> until the
> > sixties, and than more or less forgotten by most people.
> > Nowadays it's back in fashion, a lot of people like to
> decorate their
> kitchen with
> > "weckpotten" and "weckflessen", with fruits of the same colour.
>
> Is the average Dutch speaker aware of this word being foreign-derived?
>
> The spelling with <ck> ought to be a dead give-away (instead
> of *_wekken_,
> *_wekpotten_ and *_wekfkessen_).
Well, Reinhard, I reckon not a lot of Dutch people know this (or care). We
are used to using 'foreign' words, without knowing the history of a word.
On the other hand, a lot of people (not youngsters) have strong feelings
against the "Invasion of English". Around the end of WW2, people were
against using Germanisms, but now we use a lot of constructions/words that
were forbidden back then. In the 18th centrury, it was really common for the
upper class only to speak French amongst one another and to have a French
speaking nanny to raise the kids. So, I think that feelings aginst (or pro)
languages are of all times and that they change all the time as well.
Especially because not a lot of people now a lot about etymology or language
history. You just use the words you hear a lot around you, without
questioning them...
In this particular case, people might think (if they think at all about this
word) it must be old spelling, since it is an old habit (and we had had our
fair share of Spelling Reformations the last few decades).
----------
From: Henry Pijffers <henry.pijffers at saxnot.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.09.23 (02) [E]
John Duckworth <jcduckworth2003 at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Mark wrote:
>
> "I have been reading the news lately and have come across a word that I
> have been curious about many times in the past. The word is ruthless." I
> have never heard it used in any other way, i.e., I've never heard the word
> "ruthfull" or just "ruth." Is there some other Lowlands language that has
a
> relative of it? Is it used in the sense of "full of ruth?" "
<snip/>
> These words go back to Middle English _ruthe_, which is derived from the
> verb _ruen_ ('to rue', 'to regret'), compare Old English _hrēowan_ (to
> affect with grief) and _hrēowian_ (to regret).
>
Sounds like Dutch "rouwen" (to grieve/to regret).
> Compare also Middle Dutch _ruwelik_ (sad). I was trying to delve into
> the recesses of my much-befuddled brain to think of some Dutch cognates,
but
> I am not sure.I know there is a word _ruw_, but I can't quite remember
what
> it means. Is it cognate with the other words I have mentioned?
>
"Ruw" in Dutch means "rough". The words you're looking for are probably
"rouw", "rouwig", "rouwen", etc.
regards,
Henry
----------
From: Brooks, Mark <mark.brooks at twc.state.tx.us>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.09.23 (02) [E]
Thanks everyone! I appreciate your efforts. Now, I have a related
follow-up question (the President of the US in press conferences customarily
allows one, but only one, follow up question ;-)).
Excuse me, but I don't have the capacity to put various symbols in my
emails. When I use the /th/ I mean the theta symbol. I notice in the
Middle English and other forms there is a /w/ present where the /th/ is. I
would have expected something different (I'm not sure what I would expect,
but it wouldn't be /w/). Can anyone hypothesize how that came to be?
----------
From: burgdal32admin <burgdal32 at pandora.be>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.09.23 (02) [E]
LFrom: Kevin Caldwell <kcaldwell31 at comcast.net>
> Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.09.22 (06) [E]
>
>> From: Brooks, Mark <mark.brooks at twc.state.tx.us>
>> Subject: Etymology
>>
>> Hello everyone:
>>
>> I have been reading the news lately and have come across a word that I
>> have
>> been curious about many times in the past. The word is "ruthless." I
>> have
>> never heard it used in any other way, i.e., I've never heard the word
>> "ruthfull" or just "ruth." Is there some other Lowlands language
>> that has
>> a
>> relative of it? Is it used in the sense of "full of ruth?" Thanks.
>>
>> Mark Brooks
>
> Actually, the words "ruth" and "ruthful" exist, though they are rarely
> used.
>
> American Heritage Dictionary, Second College Edition, defines them as
> follows:
>
> Ruth 1. Compassion or pity for another 2. Sorrow or misery about
> one's own
> misdeeds or flaws [ME < _rewen_, to rue < OE _hreowan_]
>
> Ruthful 1. Full of sorrow; rueful 2. Causing sorrow or pity.
>
> Kevin Caldwell
Hi Kevin, Mark,
Could that be related with the Dutch words "rouwen/ rouw" (E: to mourn/
mourning)?
groetjes
luc vanbbrabant
oekene
----------
From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at worldonline.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.09.23 (02) [E]
The Dutch cognates to ME rewen, OE hreowan etc are 'rouwen' to mourn and
'rouw' mourning period.
Ingmar
>
> Actually, the words "ruth" and "ruthful" exist, though they are rarely
used.
>
> American Heritage Dictionary, Second College Edition, defines them as
> follows:
>
> Ruth 1. Compassion or pity for another 2. Sorrow or misery about one's
own
> misdeeds or flaws [ME < _rewen_, to rue < OE _hreowan_]
>
> Ruthful 1. Full of sorrow; rueful 2. Causing sorrow or pity.
>
> Kevin Caldwell
>
> ----------
>
> From: John Duckworth <jcduckworth2003 at yahoo.co.uk>
> Subject: Etymology
>
>
> Hello, Lowlanders!
>
> Mark wrote:
>
> "I have been reading the news lately and have come across a word that I
> have been curious about many times in the past. The word is ruthless." I
> have never heard it used in any other way, i.e., I've never heard the word
> "ruthfull" or just "ruth." Is there some other Lowlands language that has
a
> relative of it? Is it used in the sense of "full of ruth?" "
>
> THe word _ruthful_ is used, as is the noun _ruth_ from which it is
derived.
> _Ruth_ means either compassion for what someone else is going through, or
> regret for one's own actions.
>
> These words go back to Middle English _ruthe_, which is derived from the
> verb _ruen_ ('to rue', 'to regret'), compare Old English _hrēowan_ (to
> affect with grief) and _hrēowian_ (to regret). .There was also another
> related word in Middle English, _rewe_, which is the same as the Modern
> English _rue_ (which can be either a verb or a noun): from the Old English
> _hrēow_. A cognate in Old High German is _hriuwa_ (sorrow).
> Back on Lowlands territory we have Old Saxon _hriuwi_, meaning 'sad', and
> various forms related to it: _hriulaeko_, _hriuwig_, _hriuwigmaed_, and so
> on, all meaning more or less 'sad'. There is a use in the poem 'The
> Heliand': _than stod thar ôk Iohannes iongro Cristes hriuui undar his
hêrran
> uuas him is hugi sêrag._ (I can't quite make out the meaning. Can you
help,
> Ron?) Compare also Middle Dutch _ruwelik_ (sad). I was trying to delve
into
> the recesses of my much-befuddled brain to think of some Dutch cognates,
but
> I am not sure.I know there is a word _ruw_, but I can't quite remember
what
> it means. Is it cognate with the other words I have mentioned?
>
> John Duckworth
>
> Preston, UK
>
> ----------
>
> From: Troy Sagrillo <meshwesh at bigfoot.com>
> Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.09.22 (06) [E]
>
> on 23.09.2004 12.08 AM, Mark <mark.brooks at twc.state.tx.us> wrote:
>
> > I have been reading the news lately and have come across a word that I
> have
> > been curious about many times in the past. The word is "ruthless." I
> have
> > never heard it used in any other way, i.e., I've never heard the word
> > "ruthfull" or just "ruth." Is there some other Lowlands language that
has
> a
> > relative of it? Is it used in the sense of "full of ruth?"
>
> According to the AHD, "ruth" is:
>
> NOUN:
> 1. Compassion or pity for another. 2. Sorrow or misery about one's own
> misdeeds or flaws.
>
> ETYMOLOGY:
> Middle English ruthe, from Old Norse hrygdh (influenced by Old English
> hre:ow, sorrow, regret).
>
> http://www.bartleby.com/61/74/R0357400.html
>
> I can't say I remember ever running a cross it "in the wild."
>
> Cheers,
>
> Troy
>
> ----------
>
> From: Global Moose Translations <globalmoose at t-online.de>
> Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.09.22 (06) [E]
>
> Mark Brooks wrote:
> > I have been reading the news lately and have come across a word that I
> have
> > been curious about many times in the past. The word is "ruthless." I
> have
> > never heard it used in any other way, i.e., I've never heard the word
> > "ruthfull" or just "ruth." Is there some other Lowlands language that
has
> a
> > relative of it? Is it used in the sense of "full of ruth?" Thanks.
>
> I have always assumed that "ruth" is an obsolete noun form which is
> connected with "to rue".
>
> Gabriele Kahn
----------
From: Ruth & Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.09.23 (02) [E]
Dear Kevin, Mark, John Duckworth, Troy, Gabriele:
Subject: LL-L "Etymology"
> "I have been reading the news lately and have come across a word that I
> have been curious about many times in the past. The word is ruthless." I
> have never heard it used in any other way, i.e., I've never heard the word
> "ruthfull" or just "ruth." Is there some other Lowlands language that has
a
> relative of it? Is it used in the sense of "full of ruth?" "
> According to the AHD, "ruth" is:
> NOUN:
> 1. Compassion or pity for another.
2. Sorrow or misery about one's own misdeeds or flaws.
> ETYMOLOGY:
> Middle English ruthe, from Old Norse hrygdh (influenced by Old English
> hre:ow, sorrow, regret).
Here's the Afrikaans:
rou = mourning
berou = repentance, remorse, penitence, contrition, compunction.
Vertalende Afrikaanse 'GROOT WOORDEBOEK' (Kritzinger, Steyn, Schoonees en
Cronje).
What about the herb 'rue' (Afr 'wynruit' = wine sprig)?
Yrs,
Mark
----------
From: Ruth & Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.09.23 (02) [E]
Dear Kevin, Mark, John Duckworth, Troy, Gabriele:
Subject: LL-L "Etymology"
> "I have been reading the news lately and have come across a word that I
> have been curious about many times in the past. The word is ruthless." I
> have never heard it used in any other way, i.e., I've never heard the word
> "ruthfull" or just "ruth." Is there some other Lowlands language that has
a
> relative of it? Is it used in the sense of "full of ruth?" "
> According to the AHD, "ruth" is:
> NOUN:
> 1. Compassion or pity for another.
2. Sorrow or misery about one's own misdeeds or flaws.
> ETYMOLOGY:
> Middle English ruthe, from Old Norse hrygdh (influenced by Old English
> hre:ow, sorrow, regret).
Here's the Afrikaans:
rou = mourning
berou = repentance, remorse, penitence, contrition, compunction.
Vertalende Afrikaanse 'GROOT WOORDEBOEK' (Kritzinger, Steyn, Schoonees en
Cronje).
What about the herb 'rue' (Afr 'wynruit' = wine sprig)?
Yrs,
Mark
----------
From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology
Lowlands Saxon (Low German), North Saxon dialects of Germany:
rüy (<Rü>) 'regret', 'rue'
rüy(e)n (<rüen>) 'make regret'
berüy(e)n (<berüen>) 'to regret'
Kumplementen,
Reinhard/Ron
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