LL-L "Morphology" 2004.09.30 (04) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject: "Morphology" [E]

> From: john feather <johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk>
> Subject: Morphology
>
> Her answer is about Scottish English and therefore perhaps not what Sandy
> meant but she says:

This is probably my fault for giving Scots equivalents in answer to
English-language questions without explaining the distinction, but everyone
should always bear in mind that Scots and Scottish English are two different
languages, both spoken in the Lowlands of Scotland. Some people speak
somewhere on a contimuum between them but, in general, Scots speakers speak
Scottish English as well as Scots, not a mixture of the two.

> >I've always said "aren't I?" and thought that "amn't I?" sounded
affected,
> though it may possibly be normal usage in certain geographical areas. If I
> was teaching I'd definitely go for "aren't I?".  "Am I no?" is very common
> in Scotland, with differing stresses depending on the context and
emphasis.

I might add that while "Am I no?" is probably universal, "Amn't I?" is only
used as a tag and occurs only in those dialects where the "-n't" contraction
is used. Even in those dialects, the word "not" isn't used, except in
certain expressions for strong emphasis (and then it's pronounced "nut"
/nV?/).

> I'm no expert). The Scots also have a habit of using Scots
> expressions to make fun of themselves and others. It's not unusual for
> someone who speaks standard English to use this type of expression in an
> exaggerated tone to poke fun at themselves or someone else. This is

I think I know what she means here but it's not properly explained. She says
"The Scots" but doesn't say whether she means Scots who have English as a
first language or Scots who have Scots as a first language. As for
first-language Scots speakers, it's not Scots expressions we use to make fun
of ourselves, but English expressions. We don't "use" Scots expressions
consciously because Scots is our first language.

> I can see. I do think your correspondent is wrong to say "aren't I?" is
> never used. I'd say "ain't I?" is consciously American.  Then of
> course there's "innit?", which I think is ubiquitous among the young.<

This is confusing Scots with English. I'd be surprised if anyone said
"aren't I?" or "Ain't I?" in Scots. It's never used! Unless Andy or Ian are
going to contradict me on that...

Sandy
http://scotstext.org/

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From: john feather <johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Morphology

Mark asked if:
 >the old 'RP' dialect is an Academic affectation imposed on or rather
assumed, by the upwardly mobile classes, & that the old aristocrats had no
truck with it.<

I would guess that RP was strongly promoted if not actually created by the
English public (ie private) school system, one of whose principle functions
was to eliminate local accents which would betray the origins of its pupils,
but any boarding-school system is bound to have a levelling effect on
accent. I suppose the schoolmasters would have got their idea of correct
pronunciation from the universities. I'm not sure that "affectation" is
quite right.

The old aristocracy did speak very oddly and would have looked down (even
more) on people who tried to copy them. Harold Macmillan was probably one of
the last people in the higher levels of public life who used the extreme
slurred pronunciation. Droppin' final consonants was part of it. Hence
"huntin', shootin' an' fishin'".

Mark: One of my favourite tag lines is "All roads lead to Damascus" but
since the First Gulf War it's likely to be misunderstood.

John Feather johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk

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From: Jacob SPA <jj.spa at wanadoo.fr>
Subject: contractions


ik stao (also : k-stao) I stand stao-k ? do I stand ?

ie staon you stand stao-j ? do you stand ?

N.B. The last example is a genuine case of non deletion, because in
inversion involving the second person , the verb takes no suffix, just as in
standard Dutch)

But the contractions only occur with verbs/conjunctions that are relatively
frequent. Cf.:

loop-ie do you walk * loo-j

Regards

Jaap Spa

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From: R. F. Hahn <lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net>
Subject: Morphology

Welkom bie Lowlands-L!  Bienvenue à Lowlands-L!
'K saluueer ge in de nomme van de liest, Jaap!

Reinhard "Ron" F. Hahn
Founder & Administrator, Lowlands-L
lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
http://www.lowlands-l.net

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