LL-L "Language politics" 2004.09.30 (06) [E/V]

Thu Sep 30 16:29:19 UTC 2004

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * 30.SEP.2004 (06) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org or lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From: Liesbethvlaomse at aol.com <Liesbethvlaomse at aol.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2004.09.24 (12) [D/E]

Persoonliek zij 'k oôk 't met van Ingmar en Roger akkoord opleidingen het
ge'bruuk van eên internationale « vaktaol »
in casu het engels wenseliek is en dadde 't g'vaor van de universeile
verengelsing nie uutgaot van het geven van college's en 't werkplaots in de
ganse weireld in die taol.

         Jan er is met toch z'n Engles een taolimperialisme mao , ikke deink
dadde de, weg terug culturaol en taolimperialisme is die taol'n g'bruuk'n
g'liek Gabriele in the US g'daod heêft et doet nu in Dietsland.  Oôk ao doet
ze daglig.  Zij's eên vrómins dadde'k vanwie deink zeêr hôglig.  Ron heêft
de weireld nen groôt dienst met w'n Listserve 'ier.  Dank Gij Ron.
Met vriendelik groetjes in naom van Nehellenia,
Liesbeth

P.S. Hoe is dadde 'ier Vlaoms  Schoôlmeêster M'neêr VanBrant ?  Beter .
voel vrie wo dadde ikke neter kan shriev'n
suggeren maoken AJB.  Dank je.

----------

From: 1handclapping <1handclapping at myway.com>
Subject: LL-L anguage Politics (14)

>From : Roger Verhiest 1handclapping at myway.com

Dear Friends,

Esperanto exists over 100 years and has now approx. 6 million speakers
(1 earthling out of 1000) Its yearly conventions proves that its use is
efficient
and it will enjoy a steady expansion - It took tha natural widespread
languages
500 years to achieve a kind of dominance - so time is on the side of the
Esperantists.

Why ? Simply because of the arrogance a dominant language bestows upon
itself :
look at what happened at the use of Russian in Eastern Europe in another 15
years it will be completely gone. If the perception of the Anglo Saxons as
imperialistic continues I will not give a penny for the future dominance of
UK, Austro or American English.

The point is and this is a weakness as wel l as a strongness : Esperanto
isn't militant -
The Esperantists are too certain of their point - they continue writing
their plays and novels
translating every facet of language in Esperanto and wait....

Personally I believe they should stop waiting and make the language more
visible to the general public - as it is very practical in f.e. signs which
are easily to be understood.

Say a foreigner is travelling iin Sweden and sees a text : "Lekkande Barn"
wouldn't it be
a good idea to add : "Ludante Infanoj". Add to this idea a booklet which
would enable
the general public to translate such simpel road-indications in his natural
language.
I believe that such measure would make road trafic much safer especially in
a region where so many different languages exist. Now one might argue that
the same thing could be done in English - this is politically not feasible
.. no "national" large language would admit "dominance"
to another language... but "Esperanto" is neutral and could be universally
accepted.

----------

From: Mike <botas at club-internet.fr>
Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2004.09.29 (02) [E]

Howdy all,
Ron you asked:
"In what way would a universal lingua franca prevent
the suppression of minority languages by those whose promotion of national
linguae francae includes the eradication of minority languages within their
respective countries?  This is not a quiz.  I am merely interested in
getting your point."
When I entered school, a pupil more enlightened than the rest of us,
asked the teacher: Why do you oblige us to learn and speak German?
The answer was as logical as it was nonsense: "You see, later in your
life, when you go to Köln or München, you want to be able to communicate,
don´t you?" Yeah! Later in my life I ventured 100km North and everyone
spoke Danish...
All this would collapse like a cardhouse with a world lingua franca.
Mike Wintzer

----------

From: Mike <botas at club-internet.fr>
Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2004.09.29 (14) [E]

Ian wrote:

For us, my point is that the battle between moves towards a single
administrative international language (i.e. English) and towards support for
the development of the use of regional languages need not be mutually
exclusive.

Thanks, Ian, for your out-of-the-box thoughts.
I challenge all Lowlanders, including myself to give this lots of
thought and then to post comments. Mine will be coming in time.
Greetings, Mike Wintzer

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language politics

Thanks for your spin on things, Ian.  It was great to hear from you again.

You made the point that the only languages that reached both types of status
are Welsh and Catalan.  I'm not really qualified to speak about either of
these with any authority, but I will speak anyhow.

A while back, Sandy _et al._ enlightened us about the success the Welsh
movement achieved.  I'll leave it with that, except to mention that there
seems to have been a strong sense among the speakers (and perhaps also among
non-Welsh speakers of Wales) that Wales is a country, that Welsh *is* the
language of Wales, that Welsh culture and consciousness is linked with and
at least in part dependent on the continued use of Welsh, and that Welsh
used to be and still can be a language suitable for all occasions, including
education and administration.

The thing about Catalan seems to be that there is and always has been very
strong consciousness among its speakers, a lot of pride in the culture and
in Catalonia's leading roles within Spain (especially in the world-famous
arts, architecture, etc.), the language, its literary history and an
awareness that Catalan is on a par with Castilian, does not need to play
second fiddle within Catalonia.  Furthermore, the oppressive Franco years
propably strengthened Catalonians' resolve to boost the status of their own
language.  I know that Galician speakers are trying a similar thing.  This
is not to say that Castilian should not continue as a national lingua
franca.

So, it seems to me that speakers' awareness and confidence are essential
ingredients.  If languages play second and third fiddle, are excluded from
official business, then that is not a huge step away from the closet
existence they used to lead, and it does little to boost their speakers'
confidence.

In my opinion, boosting speakers' and writers' confidence is of great
importance.  One way of doing this is demanding that the languages be used
in certain official functions at least (e.g., at weddings upon request).
Another one is to publish more than the homegrown literature, namely also
"modern" literature, drama, etc., and use the languages in the electronic
media in all sorts of contexts.  This would go a long way in removing the
unnecessary assumption that these languages are inferior and limited,
assumption held even by many native speakers.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

==============================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================