LL-L "Etymology" 2005.04.03 (06) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 03.APR.2005 (06) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: Arthur Jones <arthurobin2002 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology (E/Go/Tur) 2005.04.03


From: Arthur A. Jones
arthurobin2002 at yahoo.com

Dear Lowlanders,

My question probably involves a sheer coincidence, although I am curious
whether it might instead be an example of Germanic-Turkic linguistic
contact. Many of you have heard of the personality cult of the President of
Turkmenistan, Mr. Saparmurat Niiyazov, who insists on calling himself
"Turkmenbashi" or "Father of Turkmen", much as Kemal Ataturk in Turkey.

Niyazov has written two volumes of poetry and general observations with an
occasional wise instruction on life (_pace_ Chairman Mao), and has just
about chased away all other books in his country.

The name of the two-volume work is "Ruhnama", which is usually translated as
"Book of the Spirit". It strikes me that the Ostrogothic would have been
_Runa_ (sacred writing) and _ahma_ (spirit), thus "sacred writing of the
spirit". Also, we know that Goths and Tatars (speaking Turkic) mingled
extensively in the Crimea for many centuries.

Did Gothic lend any such vocabulary to Turkic, or is it sheer coincidence?
Do we have a Turcologist handy (hint! hint!) who can straighten this one out
for me?

Thanks!

Arthur

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From: Ian Pollock <ispollock at shaw.ca>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.04.02 (06) [E]

Kukushka (Кукушка) is indeed the name of the cuckoo bird in Russian,
and I do think that the connection between the two is recognized by
native speakers.
Cheers!
-Ian

On 2-Apr-05, at 7:18 PM, Lowlands-L wrote:
>> Interestingly enough while we play Peek a Boo, or Peep Boo, with kids
>> I
>> discovered on the Trans Siberian Express that Russian kids peep out
>> saying 'Cuckoo'.
>
> Yes, but that could be a German loan, based on _Kucku(k)!_, _Kuku(uk)_,
> etc., which I take as being a "confluence" of making a suprising sound
> (cf.
> English "(peek a) boo") with simultaneous reference to _gucken_ or
> _kucken_
> 'look' (cf. Low Saxon _kyken_ <kieken>, Dutch _kijken_, Afrikaans
> _kyk_, and
> supposedly Old or Middle Flemish-derived _keek_ in Scots). The "cuckoo"
> twist may well be an afterthought.

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Wow, Arthur! Talking about "avid etymologizer" ...

Gothic _runa_ appears to be general Germanic, related to English "rune,"
which is related to German _raunen_ 'to whisper', 'to speak in a low voice',
usually implying secretive communiction.  Hence, I understand "runic
writing" and "runic letters" to have originated as sacred and thus
privileged information, as information that was passed on secretly.

Turkmen (and other Turkic) _Ruhnama_ ~ _Ruhname_ is a compound noun
consisting of _ruh_ and _nama_ (not *_ruhn_+_ahma_).  In fact, it isn't
Turkic at all but is derived from Iranic (Persian): روح _rûh_ (< Arabic روح
_rûħ_) 'spirit', 'soul' + نامه _nâma_ ~ _nâme_ 'record', 'document',
'letter', 'book'.

Sorry to be the bringer of bad news.  I know it would have been nice.

> who insists on calling himself "Turkmenbashi" or "Father of Turkmen",

Actually, literally "Turkmen-Head."  Turkic _baš_ ("bash," written _baş_ in
Turkish and Azeri) means 'head' and in extension 'leader' (_Führer_) or
'chieftain'.   While perhaps rather presumptuous, _Türkmenbašı_  -- "Head
Turkmen" or "Turkmen Leader" or even "Head Turkmen" -- sounds a lot less
presumptuous than _Türkmenatası_ or *_Atatürkmen_ "Turkmen Father" would
sound.  Of course, this my "defense" is limited to the name.

Hello, Ian!  Congratulations on your speakers' corner debut and your
information!  Welcome at Lowlands-L.  It's great you joined us.

> Kukushka (Кукушка)

So I take it you think it's not a loan, is some sort of onopatopoetic
"universal."  Also, I take it кукушка _kukuška_ is the diminutive form of
*кукук *_kukuk_ (which may now be archaic or defunct).

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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