LL-L "Etymology" 2005.04.08 (01) [E]

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From: heather rendall <HeatherRendall at compuserve.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.04.07 (08) [E/]

Message text written by INTERNET:lowlands-l at LOWLANDS-L.NET
>So - why not call it a Germanic root and be done with it?  Ask
the experts!"
<

OED gives   Germanic  *kni(bar b)az of uncertain etymology   Sorry can't do
a 'bar b' in Compuserve.
Partridge suggest it might be related to LG knipen  G kneifen  = to nip .
Perhaps from those old type shears that one squeezed to close the cutting
edges over one another?????

Heather

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From: Jo Thys <Jo.Thijs1 at pandora.be>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.04.07 (05) [E/LS]

Dag Jonny,

> in uns LS-Mundoort bruukt wi aff un' an dat Woord *Knief*,

Dutch has two forms, _knijf_ en  _nijf_ both meaning 'knife'. _Knijpen_
existst next to 'nijpen' as 'knop' to 'nop', and D.'knagen' vs Hg 'nagen'.
Cognates of 'nijpen' are found in Md., MLg _nipen_, Onorse _hnippa_, Lit.
_gnybti_, Let. _knebt_.

Too complicated for conclusions,

Groeten,

Jo Thys

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From: klaus schmirler <KSchmir at online.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.04.07 (08) [E/]

From: Ed Alexander <edsells at cogeco.ca>

> Ed again:  perhaps originally the "knife" in question was more of a
> "cleaver", with which one appears to hack at the meat.

And I still miss the obvious theory: related to kneipen/knipa &c., to
pinch. Which might suggest that the original knives were either regarded
as a utensil to keep your food in place, rather like the fork of current
use, or blunt enough to hurt more than they cut.

klaus

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From: Arthur Jones <arthurobin2002 at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.04.07 (08) [E/]


To: Lowlands-l at Lowlands-l.net
From: Arthur A. Jones
arthurobin2002 at yahoo.com

Subject: Re: LL-L "Etymoloogy" 2005.04.07 (09) [E/]

Ed Alexander wrote (regarding _knife_):

<probably not even Indo-European.
<Gc- which...was rich in non-I.E. words beginning in KN...
<So- why not call it a Germanic root and be done with it?

Yes, Ed, Ron, Henno & all, it is tempting to conclude that _knife_, _knief_,
and _kniv_ don't go back all that far, that they aren't really Indo-European
in origin, possibly Northern Germanic.

However, Gothic, an Eastern Germanic language, gave us _kniwa_ for a
war-blade; a Latin text of the third century A.D. (or C.E., as you prefer)
mentioned a Gothic chieftain named "cniva" --written in Latin
transliteration-- as a Chieftain who specialized in training his men
especially in the blutruenstige Kunst ---bloody craft--- of knife-fighting.

Also, the root goes back a good deal farther. Hittite featured _kenuezi_ and
_kunanti_, to beat to death, and beaten to death, respectively (but not
respectfully!);

Old Church Slavonic had _gniti_ for hunt, beat, slay;
Tocharian A had _kanuemp_ for "slay-tool";
Old Irish had _gnaida_, for "slays, kills";
Finally, reconstructed Proto-Indo-European: _ghnanti_, _ghnenti_, "beat,
beaten".

Perhaps the etymology on this occasion is one derived from function or
purpose rather than strict name. Thus, we may be witnessing the "evolution"
not only of the word "knife", but also the evolution of the weapon itself,
from a battle-borne bludgeoning stick to a SHARP battle-borne bludgeoning
stick! Isn't it wonderful how far mankind has come in a few thousand years?

Hails alleiksamma!

Arthur

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