LL-L "Syntax" 2005.08.05 (03) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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From: Ben J. Bloomgren <godsquad at cox.net>
Subject: LL-L "Syntax" 2005.08.03 (03) [E]

Gavin,
"The putative context is one of deduction."

Is that a morphological case in an obscure Siberian language or something?
What on earth is putative?
Ben J. Bloomgren

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From: Gavin Falconer <Gavin.Falconer at gmx.net>
Subject: LL-L "Syntax" 2005.08.04 (04) [E]

Ron said:

"That was a typo.  It should have been _denn_, the Missingsch equivalent
(from LS) of German _dann_.  It usually implies "in that case," but in this
variety it is often inserted without having exactly that meaning, is a bit
of a supposition marker, much like "then" in colloquial British English
(e.g., "It must have been you then," "Are you feeling sick then?")."

I was thinking of "den Haag".  Sorry to keep on about such minor things, but
I take it that the "denn" be omitted without rendering the sentence invalid.
 I want to keep things as simple as possible to allow comparison.

Best,

Gavin

Gavin Falconer

"Tharfor wordly happe es ay in dout
Whilles dam fortune turnes hir whele about."

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From: R. F. Hahn
Subject: Syntax

Gavin (above):

> I take it that the "denn" be omitted without rendering the sentence 
> invalid.
> I want to keep things as simple as possible to allow comparison.

I suppose so, Gav.

It's hard to explain why and how Low Saxon and Missingsch dialects like 
throwing in lots of those "small words," and the semantic significance of 
such devices is not always terrible clear.  Typically these are _denn_, LS 
_ja~jo_ = M _dscha_, LS _aver_~_ober_ = M _aber_, _nu_, and LS _ook_ = M 
_aauch_.

For instance, in the Hamburg Low Saxon version of the "Wren" story
(http://www.lowlands-l.net/anniversary/index.php?page=hamborgsch) you'll 
find the sentence _De Tuunkrüper is jo ober nu keen Bangbüx, nä?_ ("The wren 
is _ja_ but now no scardy-can, right?"), and in the Hamburg Missingsch
(http://www.lowlands-l.net/anniversary/index.php?page=missingsch-hamburg1) 
you'll find _Der Zaunkönig hat dscha aber nu kein Schiss, nä?_ ("The wren 
has _ja_ but now no fear, right?").  I could add _ook_ = _aauch_ as well:

De Tuunkrüper is jo ober ook nu keen Bangbüx, nä?
Der Zaunkönig hat dscha aber aauch nu kein Schiss, nä?

The base sentences would be:

LS: De Tuunkrüper is (ober) keen Bangbüx.
M: Der Zaunkönig hat (aber) kein Schiss.
"(But) the wren is not afraid."

LS _ja~jo_ = M _dscha_ (SG _ja_ 'yes') adds an assertive or contradictory 
element.

_(Denn) nu_ ("then now") is similar to English "now then" in carrying on a 
story.

LS _ook_ = M _aauch_ (SG _auch_ 'also', 'as well', 'too', 'either') in this 
case works a bit like "either" or "neither" ("He isn't a chicken either").

And then there's the tag question format of a statement, requesting 
attention and involving the listener ("..., you know", "you hear?").

English dialects, especially non-standard English of England, use similar 
devices.  So I assume that our British friends can relate to this more 
easily than most others.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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