LL-L "Resources" 2005.08.21 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 21.AUG.2005 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Sabine Cretella <sabine_cretella at yahoo.it>
Subject: LL-L "Resources" 2005.08.19 (09) [E]

Subject: different ressources + questions + Hans Wix

Hi Dan,

unfortunately also the second link I have for this work stops at the
same page. It seems as if you do quite a lot of research :-)

Olaf Bordasch tried to extract the words out of the book. If you scoll
down the following page you can find the links:
http://home.wxs.nl/~obd/obo/platt/buch.htm

I asked him if we could use these wordlists - maybe I did not explain
too much on how we work on things - and so he said that it would not be
perfect enough to insert it into UW.

The thing is: on Wiktionary and UW we do things as good as possible, but
often it is and cannot be perfect - this is then the point when we
search for people who can help to do this.

For now we added a template where to insert links and single sentences
so that one can see where a particular word is used, but the problem
remains with printed texts - if we cannot get them in an electronic
format we will not be able to link to them. This is also a reason why it
would be so important to collect non-copyrighted texts (books of writers
that died over 70 years ago or texts released in the public domain),
articles that can be found online (and these of course may be under
copyright and we just link there) etc. This is the reason why I search
for references. Old books can be scanned and read with ocr (then they
need proof reading of course).

Another great resource are Proverbs - they are free content and they
contain many particular terms that often are not understood (therefore
these should be found in UW).

Another rescource that is interesting is found at the German Gutenberg
project:
http://gutenberg.spiegel.de/groth/glossar/glossara.htm

A further great ressource of material is at the University of Oldenburg:
http://www.bis.uni-oldenburg.de/~havekost/needer/reynke.htm

And I found a scanned version of another dictionary here (Middle Low
German - is there a better translation into English??)
http://www.rzuser.uni-heidelberg.de/%7Ecd2/drw/s/Sa-schm.htm#Schiller-Lubben

I know, these are old ressources and are not actual language, but if you
study literature and/or history you will have to cope with old texts, so
of course we are also interested in these ressources. All is only about
correct categorisation. Having words categorised correctly it will be an
easy thing to create spellcheckers. Since we already are talking about
some kind of built-in spell checker for a Computer Aided Translation
(CAT) tool that is going to be updated automatically for example once a
month for German, Italian, English etc. it isn't a problem to do this
also for all minor languages.

This makes it essential that we can categorise words and attributen them
to exact ortography systems and as for "local language" (language of a
particular city for example) to attribute the local use of a word. This
will help to create some kind of consistency in the everyday language -
and every single word that is correctly categorised (and if the case
also being attributed to more than one category) is very important.

I would like to suggest one thing: people who want to edit semthelves
online just get their own user name and do this, all manual changes to
be made are attributed to whover does them. If someone gives for example
some 10 or 15 terms with attributions I will add them to a list that is
then available to download. As soon as we have a certain number of words
that come throught the lowlands-l I would say to create one user called
lowlands-l and upload them under this name with the right categories in
one rush.

For everyone who wants to contribute with longer lists we do the same,
but creating a user account for that person (the user name can also be
neutral if you prefer). So everyone can choose and everyone can contribute.

Really every correct word counts for us and every comment to single
words to find out where they come from or if they are definitely wrong
(which then leads to their deletion). Up to now I did not encounter
words where I did not find ressources, but I go ahead only very few
words a day since I am contemporarily working on several projects and
also my ordinary translation work needs to be done.

This might result in not responding for some days here since there are
other "things" to be sorted out - like now: I will have to cope with a
completely different glossary about electricity and high tension
applications IT-DE. This just to tell you: if I don't anwer immediately
there is a reason.

Have a great week-end!

Sabine

> Subject: Hans Wix
>
> Sabine,
> I don’t know whether the 1921 version is a re-print. I can say that
> the pdf
> file stops just where it starts getting REALLY interesting! :-) Is
> there any
> more of it?
>
> I have high regard for these older works of dialectology that were
> done in
> the late 19th and early 20th century. I have found heaps of very
> interesting
> publications in the Vienna University library and the Austrian National
> Library, especially, in the Lowlands context, one on the Mainland
> North-Frisian dialect of Mooring. These older surveys, though
> antiquated in
> method and style, are meticulously researched and very carefully written.
> Also, they will be documentation of an older form of speech, like a
> window
> into the past. For example, I read that older people around the turn
> of the
> century still used a voiced inter-dental fricative (voiced “th” in
> English
> “then”) where modern Mooring dialect has [z] or [s].

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