LL-L "Language use" 2005.08.27 (02) [E]

Sun Aug 28 01:55:29 UTC 2005

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From: CrÃostÃ³ir Ã“ Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.08.26 (04) [E]

Paul Finlow-Bates wrote:
"I am personally less than overjoyed at the growth of English as a world
language,
even if it does make travel easier in some respects."

I don't see the growth of English as a world language as a good thing in
terms of
travel. The old days of having to learn useful phrases of a country's
language
before travelling there are long gone, robbing the youngest generation of
English
speakers of any respect for or interest in other languages (and, by
extension,
cultures), "because everyone speaks English anyway". With this comes an
ugly lack of
respect for which native English speakers (whether English, Scottish,
Australian,
American or even Irish) have become notorious - the old "I'll say it
louder in
English" syndrome. I've had to fight to speak Dutch in Belgium and the
Netherlands
because as an English speaker it was presumed I would never want to speak
in any
other language. It's depressing.

I am not at all surprised that secondary school students in England have
no interest
in foreign languages (learning of which are, of course, not compulsory*),
when they
encouraged to believe their is no need for them. *Nevertheless, most
school children
in England and Cornwall do undertake a brief (five year) course in French,
German or
Castillian. I was schooled in Cornwall and did French and Castillian (not,
I was not
permitted to learn Cornish!).

Ingmar wrote:
"Maybe Euro-English is the de facto language of this list, too."

Perhaps it is. I sometimes think I'm the only one who thinks it odd that
Low Saxon
speakers will communicate with one another on this list only in English,
considering
one of the reasons for the list is to give Lowlandic speakers a place to
"air" their
varieties. Most of the members of this list would not have that much
difficulty
understanding Low Saxon, West Frisian, Dutch or any number of other
varieties, so
the increasing drift towards English (whether Euro-English or American
English)
monolingualism is as strange as it is unnecessary.

Not a dig at you, Ingmar... you just scratched a mental scab that had been
itching for some time. :)

Ron wrote:
"...the two Samoan Englishes..."

I've always wondered if speakers of Samoan English in (Western) Samoa
inclined more
to New Zealand forms and speech, and speakers of Samoan English in
American Samoa
inclined more to US forms and accent. Anyone on the list have any
experience in Samoa?

Go raibh maith agaibh,

CriostÃ³ir.

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language use

Hi, CrÃostÃ³ir!

I certainly know where Ingmar and you are coming from, and I agree with
you.  However, note that even our Jonny has resorted to writing more
English, and he used to be a main proponent of more linguistic diversity.

I can not speak for Jonny and others.  As for myself, there are times in
which I feel I must use English to reach all subscribers on List matters. 
Wearing my private hat, I like to use Low Saxon (sometimes also dabbling
in Dutch, Afrikaans, Scots, Frisian, or whatever).  I would do so more
often.  However, especially in using LS I often have my doubts as to how
many people actually understand me.  I guess this doubt is due to meager
response.  Oftentimes, postings in LS get no response, or the response is
"I don't understand. Could someone translate?"  The alternative is to add
at least an English summary, which means more time and effort.  I am sure
we would use our respective language varieties more often if we know that
a good number of people actually read and understand what we write.

> Anyone on the list have any experience in Samoa?

I don't have experience *in* Samoa, but I do have experience *with* a good
number of Samoans, including a few "fresh off the boat."  The ones from
Western Samoa tend to speak a variety that is British-based, and those
from American Samoa tend to speak a variety that is American-based.  Both
of them seem to have specific local variants, but there appears to be a
lot of overlap, possibly due to cross-border communication.  In Seattle we
have a large number of Samoan immigrants.  They have a special TV program
with snippets sent in from both Samoas.  English loanwords and -phrases
are definitely rhotic in Samoan of American Samoa and non-rhotic in Samoan
of Western Samoa.

In recent years I have been having contacts with a few people in and from
Micronesia (especially Chuuk (Truuk), Kosrae and Pohnpei) and the Marshall
Islands.  Their English is definitely, and not surprisingly,
American-based.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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