LL-L "Phonology" 2005.11.30 (14) [D/E]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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   L O W L A N D S - L * 30 November 2005 * Volume 14
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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2005.11.29 (05) [D/E]


  From: "Roger Hondshoven"
  Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2005.11.28 (10) [E]

  Lately I have been struck by a similar marked rising tone in the speech of 
the
  English presentator of the BBC documentary series Egyptian Journeys with 
Dan Cruickshank. Is this a new tendency in English?

  Kind regards,

  Roger Hondshoven

  It is a very common trait in Australian English, to the extent that 
Australian comedians actually play up the tendency.  Listening to some 
Australians, every statement sounds like a question?

  The prevalence of Australian soaps on UK television might be introducing 
it here.

  Paul
----------

From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2005.11.29 (05) [D/E]

Yes, the Western Flemish dialect are NOWADAYS neigbouring
Romance/Francophone territory, but don't forget that is a relatively
recent situation.
The North West of France was Franconian (Germanic) speaking for much
longer than the areas next to Limburg etc. And South Limburg was Romance
speaking itself before it became Franconian, which was not the case with
Flanders. So that's a big difference I suppose. I think that in the areas
I was speaking of, a situation of intimate bilinguality may have existed
for several centuries, where Germanic and Romance coexisted and influenced
each other. The difference in ultimate versus initial stess in the two
languages may have lead to an intermediate compromise: the tonal accent.

The fact that the Limburgish tonal accent occurs in monosyllabic words
today, doesn't mean that these words weren't multisyllabic in the past:
just as Dutch, English and Northern Low Saxon, Limburgish is a language of
shva appocope, whereas German, Scandinavian and most of Dutch Low Saxon,
and Zeelandic/West-Flemish retained original final schwas. Same as
Northern French incl Walloon versus Southern French and most other Romance.
Btw, I think that this schwa-deletion may have to do with the origin of
the tonal accent as well.

Reinhard, what do you think?

Ingmar

Roger H en Jo T schreven:
>From:  "Roger Hondshoven" <roger.hondshoven at telenet.be>
>Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2005.11.28 (10) [E]
> Hello Ingmar,
>You have an interesting theory on the origin of the tonal accent in
>Limburgish and Rhinelandish. But you couldn't quite convince me. If the
>cause of the rise of a tonal accent were to be found in Romance influence
>("shifts in those areas: first from Celtic to Vulgar Latin + Celtic, then
to
>Romance, then to Romance + Franconian (West Germanic), and at last to
>Limburgish/Middle German. "), it would also have been a feature of Western
>Flemish (Brabant, Flanders) dialects, which have equally been in contact
>with and widely influenced by French.
>Another thing about tone in speech. I have always been under the
impression
>(correct me if I am wrong) that in Irish English there is a strong general
>rising tone at the end of a sentence (even if it is a statement). Lately I
>have been struck by a similar marked rising tone in the speech of the
>English presentator of the BBC documentary series Egyptian Journeys with
Dan
>Cruickshank. Is this a new tendency in English?
>Kind regards,
>Roger Hondshoven
>
>From:   "Jo Thys" <jo.thijs1 at telenet.be>
>Subject:  LL-L "Phonology" 2005.11.28 (10) [E]
>> Thinking of what I wrote about "French tonal accent", I was wondering if
>> this has anything to do with the famous tonal accents of the Limburgish,
>> Rhinelandish and Letzeburgisch dialects. All these dialects are neigh-
>> bouring French - or rather Walloon, and spoken on formerly Gallo-Roman
>> or Celtic ground. So there must have been several shifts in those areas:
>> first from Celtic to Vulgar Latin + Celtic, then to Romance, then to
>> Romance + Franconian (West Germanic), and at last to Limburgish/Middle
>> German. So this means also a shift from a language with stress like in
>> Romance, usually at the last syllable, to one with stress on the first
>> syllable, Germanic. My personal conclusion is that this stress shift is
>> the reason for the tonal accent in those dialects, and also that
something
>> similar may be happening in present day French pronunciation, as I
>> described. I'm curious if these theories have been investigated by ling-
>> uists before, I'd like to read more about that, so if anyone knows...
>> Ingmar
>Hallo Ingmar,
>> So this means also a shift from a language with stress like in
>> Romance, usually at the last syllable, to one with stress on the first
>> syllable, Germanic. My personal conclusion is that this stress shift is
>> the reason for the tonal accent in those dialects
>Ik denk niet dat een klemtoonverschuiving de oorzaak is voor de
toonaccenten
>omdat ze veelal voorkomen in éénlettergrepige woorden, waar ze een
>betekenisonderscheidend kenmerk zijn. Met stoottoon wordt bal begrepen als
>'feest' terwijl bal met sleeptoon als 'voetbal' wordt opgevat. Daarnaast
>wordt het toonverschil ook gebruikt om enkelvoud (sleeptoon) en meervoud
>(stoottoon) te onderscheiden zoals in knien (konijn/konijnen). Anderzijds
>spelen klemtonen misschien toch een rol, zoals bij het onderscheid tussen
>'die peer is geel' (sleeptoon) en ' een geel peer' (stoottoon).
>In een studie door Cajot in 2001 werd vastgesteld dat dit
betekenisverschil
>verdwijnt, omdat sleep- en stoottonen een verandering in klank teweeg
>brengen. In en rond Maastricht heeft de gestoten iê zich zo tot ei
>ontwikkeld, terwijl de sleeptonige iê bewaard bleef, bv. priês (prijs)-
preis
>(prijzen) i.t.t. het Maaslands priês-priês met resp. sleep- en stoottoon.
>Met vriêndelijke groeten,
>Jo Thys

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Phonology

Ingmar, you wrote above:

> Btw, I think that this schwa-deletion may have to do with the origin of
> the tonal accent as well.
>
> Reinhard, what do you think?

I believe this also, and this may well apply in Limburgish as well.

This reminds me of tonality developments in African languages, especially of 
western regions, where loss of syllables led to contour tones.  In other 
words, the tone of the dropped syllable survives and unites with the tone of 
an adjacent syllable.   E.g., (=low, ¯=high, ´=rising, `=falling) nkwamē > 
nkwám, nkwāme > nkwàm, nkwám+dwè > nkwâmb, nkwàm+dwé > nkwămb.
(Made up for demonstration purposes only. Don't try this at home!)

We need to distinguish tonality and intonation.

Tonality: phonemic tone
   (1) tones in all syllables (Chinese, Thai, Burmese, Central Tibetan,
         Khmer, etc.)
   (2) tones only primary stress ("tonal stress," Norwegian,
         Swedish, Serbo-Croatian, Slovenian

Intonation belongs to the area of suprasegmental phonology.  The same word 
can come with different intonations, depending on the context.

Rising intonation in statements (e.g., in Northern Ireland English and 
Scots, Australian English, some women's dialects in various languages) 
apparently developed from confirmation seeking (a type of "right?"), often a 
form of polite speech signalling something like "... but then again, what 
would *I* know?" even *if* the speaker considers him-/herself an authority. 
What may also play into it is an implied "Are you paying attention?"  Bear 
in mind "low-class" English speech modes; e.g., "So I buy um a pin', din' I. 
An' 'e goes 'Wha's tha' foh then?' din 'e. So I says 'Wha'za ma'ah? I foht 
yoh' me ma'e," says I, righ'?"

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron 

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