LL-L "Grammar" 2005.12.04 (08) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org or lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Commands ("signoff lowlands-l" etc.): listserv at listserv.net
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
=======================================================================

   L O W L A N D S - L * 04 December 2005 * Volume 08
=======================================================================

From: Paul Tatum <ptatum at blueyonder.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2005.12.04 (04) [E]

Hello everybody,

 > But actually create new sentences that there isn't a template for
 > ....................
 >
 > Try making one!
 >
 > Heather

Well if I just take some thought, and express it in some way that I see 
fit and proper, and that is pleasing to me, then I have written a 
sentence in my beloved mother tongue that no-one has ever written or 
spoken in quite the same way before, and so this sentence is unique and 
oh, by the way I really enjoy this language list and I like trying to 
make sense of the North Saxon, Frisian, and Dutch contributions.

And here's another unique (well it would be but for cut-n-paste) that 
you yourself wrote:

 >PS who freely admits to being the world's worst typist and whose fat
 >fingers usually hit more than one key or who frequently hits the 
 >letters in
 >the wrong order edning pu wiht wrods like this!  Sorry!

>> The way I see it, "who" is acting as the object of "saw" in that case.<
> 
> Especially clear when it's written " .. the man, whom I saw yesterday"
> 
> Heather

Yes I also think it is acting as the object of 'saw' - when it has the 
form 'whom'. When the link has the form 'who', then it seems to me to be 
acting more as a uninflected particle, but you are free to disagree. But 
by saying 'object' you are talking grammar and using the vocabulary of 
syntax. You can't get away from grammar. The moment you start thinking 
about how words are grouped together in a sentence, then you are 
thinking in terms of syntax, because that is all that syntax means in 
the end: 'the study of sentence structure'.

say you have the exemplars
the king ran
the queen cried

then all that you can say is that
the first word in a sentence must be 'the'
the second word may be 'king' or 'queen'
if the second word is 'king' then the third word may be 'ran'
if the second word is 'queen' then the third word may be 'cried'

You certainly can't say that the following are English sentences based 
only on the evidence of the exemplars:

the queen ran
the king cried.

If you do think the exemplars allow those sentences, it is because you 
know already that 'ran' and 'cried' are the same kind of words and can 
be substituted for each other, the same for 'king' and 'queen'.

And I agree there is far more to language than mere syntax, just as 
there is much more to art than mere pigments and their chemistry.

  Paul Tatum.

==============================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
======================================================================