LL-L "Orthography" 2005.02.11 (07) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 11.FEB.2005 (07) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From:  Gary Taylor <gary_taylor_98 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Hi all, and again hi Criostóir

you wrote regarding a contribution to the anniversary
project:

'I have avoided doing so for Nottingham English for
the simple reason
that I
am not satisfied with any orthography I have used so
far on this list. '

This is exactly my problem - I've come up with a
number of orthographies for Estuary, but they either
come out too 'scientific' and strange looking, and
thus difficult to follow, or they don't seem to
capture the points of pronunciation which differ from
Standard England English.

For example the word 'write' - which is phonetically
[Pae?] or phonologically /raIt/ - should this be
written <rai'>, <rait>, <ri'e>, <rite>, <wri'e> or
even just plain <write>, all of which would be
possibilities?

Does anyone know of a standard for English dialect
writing which is easy to follow as well as being an
accurate indicator of pronunciation? I'm always
jealous of Dutch or German dialect writers who have a
much easier job due to the much more phonological
writing systems of their respective standardised
languages that they use.

And if there isn't a system as such does anyone want
to have a go at trying to sorting one out with me (not
that I've got a lot of time)...?

Gary

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From:  R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Orthography

Críostóir, Gary, folks,

I think I know what you're talking about.  But it's not as though the
problem did not exist at all when you try to write dialects of Dutch, Geman,
etc.  It, too, tends to look "stupid" and "ridiculous" to people, and there
are sounds you don't really know how to render using standard spelling
devices.  I can see people struggling with this in all sorts of German
dialects and, in extension, in Low Saxon (Low German).  Plautdietsch
(Mennonite Low Saxon) is a case in point, where they try to show phonetic
details (e.g., _-a_ for /-er/).  In the Thuringian German dialects of
"Saxony," referred to as "Saxon" (_sächsisch_) dialects, all the "special
color" gets lost when you try to write them, because there are no German
devices that can render the "unusual" phonetic realizations, such as lack of
aspiration of voiceless stops, centering of back rounded vowels (/u/ -> [}],
/o/ -> [8]*), and /-r/ -> [7].  I also have this problem when I try to write
Missingsch (as in http://www.sassisch.net/rhahn/low-saxon/missingsch.html).

{* in IPA, [}] and [8] are <u> and <o> with a bar through them.  Our Swedish
friends use [}] all the time, as in _sju_.  [}] lies halfway between [u] and
[y], and [8] lies halfway between [o] and [2] = [ø].  [7] is close-mid
unrounded, as in Estonian <õ> and Mandarin <e>.}

Especially where sound files go with it, I wouldn't worry too much about it,
certainly not about what some people might think.  If it were for the
majority of people and their adherance to old mind conditioning, we wouldn't
even be having these "nerdy" conversations and "preoccupations."  :-)
Sometimes you just need to forge ahead no matter what.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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