LL-L "Etymology" 2005.07.21 (12) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 21.JUL.2005 (12) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: Utz H. Woltmann <uwoltmann at gmx.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.07.21 (06) [E]

Elsie Zinsser het geskryf:

>> I forgot to tell you that we call the ladybird in Afrikaans a
>> "Liewe-Here
>> besie", i.e 'Dear Lord's beetle'.
>
The name of the litle bug 'lady bird' is in Polish 'biedronka'. But it
is also known under the name of 'boża krówka', which means something
like 'devine little cow' or 'devine cattle'. What´s the hell is the
relationship of a bug to God or The Lord?

Szczęść Boże!
Utz H. Woltmann

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From: Luc Hellinckx <luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>
Subject: "Etymology"

Hi Ingmar,

You wrote:

> From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
> Subject: LL-L "Literature" 2005.07.10 (01) [E]
>
> In het Nederlands: Lieveheersbeestje [liv@"he:rsbe:iS@].
> <Onze Lieve Heer> lit. Our Dear Lord is the name most used for Jesus
> Christ, in Roman Catholic circles. The Netherlands are historically a
> Calvinist Protestant country, but nowadays the "RC's" make up about 40 %
> of the population. In the South, i.e Brabant and Limburg, almost everyone
> is RC, like in Flanders. "Onzelievenheer" (with N) sounds pretty Southern
> and Catholic for the Dutch ear, we (the Protestants) would rather say
> <de Heere> (de Lord). But in <lieveheersbeestje> lady bug/beetle etc
> religion doesn't play a role, or it should be that the Catholics in the
> South (Brabant) call it Onzelieven(h)eersbeestje.
> In my native Low Saxon region the insect is called "sünnekuyksken",
> something like "chicken of the sun" or "cookie od the sun" ?

We call a ladybird an "ons-lie-vraa-bisjke" here in Brabant. Clearly <
"onze-lieve-vrouw-beestje". So no referral to Jesus Christ, but rather
to his mother.

In my native town of Merchtem (and in many other Brabantish places I
believe), traditionally, mother Mary has always been revered a lot more
than any other holy person. I once heard this could be due to a previous
nature godess that must have ruled supreme. What culture she must be
associated with, I can't tell (maybe Celtic?), but it's a fact that
mother Mary is sometimes depicted with a black skin (so called "Zwarte
Madonna"...held in highest esteem among catholics). Maybe there's a link?

Those statues can be found, not only in the basilica of my hometown
Halle, but all over Europe. Point is that the official church has always
been very silent about the phenomenon, never taking any official stance.
Goes to show: It's a long way from a white guy to a black woman...for
some of us ;-)

Greetings,

Luc Hellinckx

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From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.07.21 (05) [B/E]

Dear Heather and Ron,

sorry- You are so far anywhere in the stratosphere. What about 'beach'? I
always aspected it to be a member of the 'bece', 'beck', 'bach' - family.

Or should it happen to be cognate with elsewhat, something very different?
Specially suited to become a knot with imponderable consequences within my
fellow-linguist's mind :-)?

Trying to be very cautiously

I send my

Regards

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

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From: R. F. Hahn <lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net>
Subject: Etymology

Utz, folks,

Consider also this:

Russian: божья коровка _božja korovka_ ("godly cow")
Bulgarian: божа кравица _boža kravica_ ("godly cow")
Serbo-Croatian: božja ovčica ("godly black sheep")

I wrote earlier:

> Take another type of bug, the ladybug (~
> ladybird), for instance.  In Dutch it is _lieveheersbeestje_ ("Dear
> Lord's critter"), and in Low Saxon it has similar fancy names, such as
> _Heergottskoh_ ~ _Herrgottskoh_ ("The Lord's cow"), _Sünnenkind_ ("sun
> child"), _Sünnenküken_ ("sun chick"), _Maandküken_ ("moon chick") and
> _Maankalf_ ("moon calf")!

Might there be something folkloristic we are missing here?

Onze Luc"

> In my native town of Merchtem (and in many other Brabantish places I
> believe), traditionally, mother Mary has always been revered a lot more
> than any other holy person. I once heard this could be due to a previous
> nature godess that must have ruled supreme. What culture she must be
> associated with, I can't tell (maybe Celtic?), but it's a fact that
> mother Mary is sometimes depicted with a black skin (so called "Zwarte
> Madonna"...held in highest esteem among catholics). Maybe there's a link?
>
> Those statues can be found, not only in the basilica of my hometown
> Halle, but all over Europe. Point is that the official church has always
> been very silent about the phenomenon, never taking any official stance.
> Goes to show: It's a long way from a white guy to a black woman...for
> some of us ;-)

;-)  Well, well, ... And thanks for helping me to make etymology and 
folklore inextricable here!

By the way, note that the Black Madonna is *the* patron saint of the Roma 
people ("Gypsies," whose ancestry is Indian) , and it is pretty much 
accepted that this goes back to their pre-Christian belief system.  I have 
my own wild theory about that, probably in a pan-Eurasian context. 
Actually, I'm by no means by myself there.

In Hinduism, one of the most revered deities is कळी Kali (meaning, some say 
"time," I say "black (one)" fem.; cf. Romany _ka(u)li_ 'black'), after whom 
apparently also Calcutta (Bengali কলকাতা _Kolkātā_ < Sanskrit कळीकोत 
_Kalikota_ "Kali City") is named. Kali is depicted with black or dark blue 
skin, representing the unmanifest of the womb.  I won't even try to describe 
her further here, because she is very complex, dealing with life and death 
and ultimately with liberation.  Clearly, she is related to the ancient 
"nature goddess" or "devine mother" religion that used to cover most of 
Eurasia (and North Africa), and later religions partly derived their female 
deities from her, particularly Isis of Egypt, in part even the Hinduist 
deity of wealth लक्ष्मी Lakshmi, in Buddhism, especially in Vajrayana 
(Tibetan) Buddhism, the various bodhisattvas named Tara (including a black 
one), and in East Asian Mahayana Buddhism 觀音 Guanyin (Japanese Kannon), the 
female bodhisattva (not "goddess") of compassion (कारुण, not "mercy") 
derived from the original male bodhisattva Avalokiteshvara (आवालोकितेश्वर 
Āvālokiteśvara "The Lord That Gazes Down to Observe"), probably also the 
Wiccan and Celtic Brid(get).  Many claim that she is also a source of 
Catholic Christian Mary worship.  The Roma Saint Sara la Kali (!!! a.k.a. 
"Black Madonna") is widely believed to be a Christianized metamorphosis of 
Kali whose worship had been imported from Mother India.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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