LL-L "Ethnicity" 2005.06.18 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 18.JUN.2005 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Ben J. Bloomgren <godsquad at cox.net>
Subject: LL-L "Ethnicity" 2005.06.17 (07) [E]

"What should I put down on those stupid forms?"

Put "Child of God." Watch them stammer.

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From: Jacqueline Bungenberg de Jong <Dutchmatters at comcast.net>
Subject: LL-L "Ethnicity" 2005.06.17 (09) [E]

Tom Carty made the following remark:
<Should we call Whites as being Negroically challenged - as in they are not
<black enough?

Sometimes I think there is some justification to that statement. Like when
this freckle faced strawberry blonde has spent a day at the beach!
Jacqueline

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From: ANNETTE GIESBRECHT <beautyaround at email.com>
Subject: LL-L "Ethnicity" 2005.06.17 (07) [E]

I put down white or Caucausian.  I am not ashamed of my heritage. I come
from a long line of amiable people.  I'm part German, part Anglo Saxon, have
some Danish, a bit of Welsh - of which most of which is Viking and from the
Romans who escaped over the border from the Saxon invasion, and I might have
some Norman in me too as well as a little Italian..  Putting down something
else unless it is human, shows that one is ashamed he or she's ancestors
came from Europe.  You notice that none of the other ethnic groups are
ashamed to put theirs down.  However I do not like the idea of catagorizing
people unless it is for a survey .   Removing the race category might
accomplish three things.  It might stop the case of men marrying someone ,
because they want to show how tolerant they are.   It might keep someone
from marrying someone of a different 'race' because she believes that those
of a different race are better  It might keep people marrying because of the
so called sexual prowess of the admired 'race.' And what do we have left?
Then they will marry for love and companionship  And one plus would be that
both parents can tell their child or children, what they inherited from both
sets of parents.
Annette

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From: denis dujardin <dujardin at pandora.be>
Subject: LL-L "Ethnicity" 2005.06.17 (07) [E]

Of course , using ethnicity as a political tool, leads to
institutionalised crime.
In a world of globalised mixing, which is of all times, race was perhaps
never a legitimate reason to deal with, in politics.
But language IS an issue. Most people do have a language of origin in
which they were raised. Some people have two languages, but most seem to
tend to prefer one of both.
Being raised in a bilingual context surely is an advantage. The more
languages you know, the more empathy you can develop, towards different
systems of thought.

That native language is a matter of identity. Living in a social entity,
the main element in which identity is expressed IS, language.
Whether one likes it or not, there is allways identity and where there
is communication, there is language.
Due to transport facilities there is more and more mixture of
identities, but to be able to communicate one allways needs language.
As a matter of fact language seems to be linked with places. Places have
histories (- which cannot be claimed in a dogmatic way, because history
is a continuum -).
But if pople with another language migrate to another area, where a
language has existed for decades, then it is a matter of politeness and
respect to consider , learning the language of the place you immigrate
in. Because you sort of infiltrate in a community (which as well might
be multi-racial in a fysionomical way of interpreting it) where the
social identity is the language.
This doesn't imply that your identity has to dissapear in that main
identity of that specific place, meaning that you have to cancel your
own language which you were raised in.
Therefore I think that the term of subcultural identity is a better term
than that "passe-partout"-term multiculturalism.
Because there is places, there is language and a specific culture which
is linked to that place.
Of course this can change in history, but the process of changing
implies mutual respect first of all, of the specific subculture towards
the main culture, and second, - the other way up.
But there remains ( -for the time being -) a main culture.

This sort of statement seems to me more appropriate than - of course -
that fysionomical element of racial distinction. Which , like Jean
Duvivier points out, leads to insanity.
It is not how people look like, it is about what is in their heads and
as a consequence of this (and also vice versa) the language they speak.

denis dujardin
vlaanderen.

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Ethnicity

Annette (above):

> It might stop the case of men marrying someone , because they
> want to show how tolerant they are.

Not women?  Also, I hope this is not meant to refer to or cast doubt on all
"mixed" marriages.  If categorization and favoritism *are* removed (either
on a general or on an individual basis) then social barriers are removed as
well, and this will give individuals the green light to "hook up"
irrespective of previously perceived boundaries.

Denis, I certainly agree with your theoretical framework (above).  However,
let me play the devil's advocate and say that this is a mostly
European-based theoretical framework that does not deal with issues
resulting from inherited injustice, most importantly colonization and
disenfranchizement of indigenous populations, and also the results of
slavery.  According to your model, Americans (of all places), Australians,
New Zealanders, South Africans, etc. would have had to adopt the various
aboriginal languages.  Obviously, the specific power plays called for
ignoring and destroying anything indigenous, and imported slaves were
unwilling, forced immigrants with a right to say "We didn't choose any of
this," and anything native they brought with them was ignored and slated for
destruction as well (in part by keeping individuals of the same language and
culture apart).  Centuries of that have left certain sectors of society
disadvantaged, mostly by way of external actions and also to some degree by
way of self-imposed, reactive limitations.  You can't just say, "Let's
forget about it and start over."  People's minds don't work that way.  This
is why the US Affirmative Action movement had aimed at providing corrective
opportunities, which, however, are based on categorizations as well, and its
opponents (being mostly historically favored individuals) thus have the
opportunity to destroy it by criticizing it as favoritism ... And so the
vicious circle keeps spinning.

Anyway, while this is not totally irrelevant, we might need to remember to
focus more on linguistic and cultural matters.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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