LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.06.18 (04) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 18.JUN.2005 (04) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.06.18 (03) [A/E]

Very nice, very interesting Elsie. Do you know where the name Garib came
from? Sounds quite Arabic to me, maybe through Malay, meaning Western or
far off?
I see some similarities with Dutch-based creoles, even with "broad"
Surinamese Nederlands and Petyoh (Dutch of the Indo-Europeans or
Eurasians, i.e. people of mixed Dutch and Indonesian descent)too, but
also with different modern Dutch dialects.

Final -r dropping is very common in the Eastern Netherlands, not only in
Low Saxon but also when someone is speaking Standard Dutch, after long aa
it isn't heard at all, e.g. <was ze maa klaa met haa haa, daa verlang ik
zoo naa, 't duuet nou al 'n paa jaa, dat vin ik zoo raa> "was ze maar
klaar met haar haar, daar verlang ik zo naar, het duurt nu al een paar
jaar, dat vind ik zo raar".

And "hom se" in stead of "sy" is common in Noord-Brabant, both in dialect
as in Brabanto-Dutch. Dial. "Dä is hum z'n fiets", Br-D. "da is hem z'n
fiets" <that is his bike>.

By the way, the unrounded vowel <i> for <u>, does that sound like [I] in
Dutch and English?
Because normally in Afr. they are both the same rounded, as in Dutch <rug>
etc, and Afr. <kind> sounds more like D. <kunt> than like D. <kind> [kInt]
isn't it?

Ron, falling diphthongs were once much more widespread in the Netherlands
untill not so long ago, and Westlauwers Frisian has a whole bunch of them
too, and so has (had?) Twents, for instance.

Btw, speaking of Twents and your remark "I added the soundfile...":
What happened to Henry Pfijffer? We don't here much from him lately

I'm really looking forward to the Garib soundfile!
Ingmar

>Ron, I ran the Orange River (or Gariep) Afrikaans rendition by my father
who
>comes from that region, and he theorized that the -r ending in "maanhaar"
>(lion) or in a name, for example Saar (Sara), would not be dropped because
>of its functionality.
>> (http://www.lowlands-l.net/anniversary/) with a second Afrikaans
>translation (under "Language Samples"): Garib Afrikaans, also known as
>Orange River Afrikaans or Griqua Afrikaans.  ...Note also that rounded
high
>front vowels have become unrounded (e.g., _trug_= _trig_ 'back(ward)',
>_hulle_ = _hille_ 'their').  Note also the "non-rhotic" phonology (i.e.,
>syllable-final /r/ is "dropped"), at least after /a/.  (Should _maanhaar_
>then not be *_maanhaa_?)

>Lowlanders, talking about Afrikaans in general and its phonology
>specifically, most of you may be aware that Afrikaans has some falling
>diphthongs that are not indicated in the spelling, such as <oo> [Uo] ~
[uo].

>All right, so this may be coincidental, and these features may be more
>widespread within "Dutch" than just affecting Western Flemish and
Zeelandic.

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Terrific, aren't they, Ingmar, Elsie's translations?

> Btw, speaking of Twents and your remark "I added the soundfile...":
> What happened to Henry Pfijffer? We don't here much from him lately

Yeah, I'm starting to worry myself.  Hopefully he's simply busy with his new
house.

In desperation I doctored around with some of the soundfiles myself today,
learned a bit about converting them and reducing their sizes.  So I have now
added sound files to the following versions:

Folkspraak (by David Parke)
http://www.lowlands-l.net/anniversary/index.php?page=folkspraak

Standard German (narrated by Jonny Meibohm)
http://www.lowlands-l.net/anniversary/index.php?page=deutsch

Hadeln Low Saxon (by Jonny Meibohm)
http://www.lowlands-l.net/anniversary/index.php?page=hadeln

Middle English verse (by Mike Szelog)
http://www.lowlands-l.net/anniversary/index.php?page=english-m-verse1

The cassette recordings went to Henry's address, so I can't do anything
about them right now.

By the way, our Jonny has quite the microphone voice, don't you think?  Very
impressive!  I think we should hire him for other projects.

Cheerio!
Reinhard/Ron

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