LL-L "Grammar" 2005.03.01 (01) [D/E]

Tue Mar 1 15:45:56 UTC 2005

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From: Rikus Kiers <kiersbv at tiscali.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2005.02.28 (03) [E]

Hoi Ingmar,

Ook dat heb ik op het Menso Alting College geleerd.
De engelsen zijn stipter dan wij: als het gebeuren nl het kopen van de
boeken voorbij is dan is dat over dus have bought.Wij nederlanders kochten
ze  gewoon.
Translation.
I learned that also at the Menso Alting College.I guess you visited another
school, as I remember from former making acquaintance to you.In my days
there used to be only one (christian ) school with HBS, MMS en Gymnasium in
Hoogeveen
The english people are more exact and look to the act or proces of buying.
When that is over they have bought the books.
Just to people who have english as a mother language: Is this explanation, I
never forgot after just about 43 Years  a right one? I learnt it if I
remember well from mrs Kip, we always called her mrs Hen. Does anybody from
the Hoogeveen Boys know if she is still alive?
Rikus Kiers

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From: Gary Taylor <gary_taylor_98 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Idiomatica

Hi Ingmar and all

Putting my teacher's hat on... Ingmar, you were asking about the difference
between the present perfect 'I have been...' and the past simple 'I was...'

The present perfect always has something loosely to do with the present,
which is where it gets its name. It's used for:

Things which started in the past and have continued till the present: 'I've
lived in Berlin for 4 years'
(I'm still here)

Experiences (It's an experience from my life that I now have): 'I've been to
France'

With certain words such as 'already', 'just' and 'yet' (although in American
English the past simple can also be used here).

The past simple is used when talking about an action which is finished, with
no obvious connection to the present. So as soon as you say a time in the
past or the time is implied, then use the past simple, as we know we're
talking about something that's finished.

'I lived in Berlin for 4 years' - it's over - it implies I'm not there now.

'I went to France last year. It was beautiful. I went wine tasting.' The
time is known to be in the past from the first sentence, so we use the past
simple throughout.

When we use progressive (continuous / -ing) forms it implies an action
happening for a limited time around the tense that we're using.

'I sing in a choir' - something I do regularly and I don't intend to stop
'I'm singing in a choir' - I'm either doing it right now, or it's only for a
limited time - I probably won't be doing it for much longer.

'I've lived in Berlin for 4 years' - up until now - I'm still here, and it's
something that I don't intend
to change. 'I've been living in Berlin for 4 years' - it's still the time up
until now, but here I see it as a limited period of time - the sentence
implies I might be thinking about moving to somewhere else.

'The phone rang when the postman came' - here the postman came and
simultaneously, or immediately after the phone rang.
'The phone was ringing when the postman came' - the phone was ringing over a
(limited) period of time, and while it was ringing the postman came.

Hope this helps. If it's any consolation, I know a few non-native English
speakers whose accents are so good that people who don't know them think
they are English, and they still slip up on tenses. Although English is a
fairly easy language to learn at the start, it gets a lot more complex later
on. But saying this, most English speakers are so used to hearing non-native
speaker mistakes, that it doesn't really matter and we understand most
things anyway.

Gary

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From: davidab at telefonica.net.pe <davidab at telefonica.net.pe>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2005.02.28 (03) [E]

> From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
> Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2005.02.27 (06) [E]
>
> Rikus wrote about his good memories of foreign language teachers at
> secondary school, who gave him some study aids.
> In the Netherlands at secondary school normally English, German and French
> are taught as foreign languages, together with -of course- Standard Dutch.
> Possibily Rikus and I, and maybe Arend V as well, even visited the same
> school, because we all went to school in Hoogeveen, Drenthe.
>
> I liked those language classes very much too.
> But there is one thing I never learned properly in English:
> the differences between the (past) tenses.
> Because I think in Dutch they are used not the same as in English.
>
> Dutch has:
>
> ik kocht boeken        lit.  I bought (some) books
> and
> ik heb boeken gekocht  lit.  I have bought books
>
> but the latter - the construction with 'hebben' is the usual tense.
> In English I think 'I bought that book' is more frequent.
>
> And what's more, English has in addition to these two:
>
> I was buying books,       and
> I have been buying books
>
> of which in Dutch the lit. translation would be:
>
> ik was boeken aan het kopen,   and
> ik ben boeken aan het kopen geweest
>
> My problem is that in Dutch -and Dutch Low Saxon- I can immediately 'feel'
> which form should be used, and when I speak/write English or another
> language, I tend to translate it literally. But I become a bit insecure
> because of that. Is there someone who can give me some very simple rules?
> if there are...
>
> Ingmar

I don't know about simple but....

First rule to remember: Don't use present perfect 'I have done' with
finished
timed periods.

'I have done it yesterday' is ungrammatical.
'I did it yesterday' is the correct form.

Use present perfect for indefinite or unfinished time periods.

'I have read three reports' is indefinite time period because it doesn't say
when it happened.

'I have read three reports this week' is unfinished time period because the
week isn't over yet.

Present perfect usually has some connection with the present, the past tense
doesn't:

1) An action that happened at some indefinite time in the past

'I've found my keys' describes an action that could have happened at any
time
between the past and now

-present perfect continuous can be used for recent events

'I've been working on this report all morning; I finished just a moment ago.

2) Repeated actions that happened at indefinite times in the past

'She has read Don Quijote six times'

3) An action that started in the past and is still continuing

'They have lived in that cottage all their lives'

-present perfect continuous is used in this sense

'He's been looking for a job since November'

Present perfect can also be used as an alternative to the present simple in
time clauses that refer to the future

'I'll let you know when I've finished/when I finish

For definite and finished time periods use past tense

1) single actions in the past

'We saw Ann yesterday'

2) habits, routines and repeated actions in the past

'June worked at that plant for 30 years before retiring in 1985'

If you don't mention time it's up to you whether you use present perfect or
past tense.

She's bought some cake
She bought some cake

If you are going to mention time then you have to consider whether it's a
finished or unfinished time period.

I was buying books

means an action that was in progress at some now finished time in the past

I have been buying books

means either an action that started in the past and is still going on or an
action that finished recently.

David Barrow

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