LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.03.22 (07) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Henno Brandsma <hennobrandsma at hetnet.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.03.22 (04) [E]

> From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
> Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.03.22 (03) [E]
>
> Btw, Frisian is often claimed (by Frisians) to be the most closely
> related
> cognate of English. Through one of your links I came to a study that
> pointed out that this isn't true at all, anymore.
> Friesland Frisian's closest cognate is Dutch, rhen Afrikaans, then Low
> Saxon, then German, then the Continental Scandinavian languages, only
> then
> English and finally Faroese and Icelandic.

Well, closest cognate is an assymetric relationship: viewed from English
we'd probably get Scots first, then North Frisian (island) dialects and
then West(erlauwer) Frisian, I'd suppose. Maybe French would be high,
depending on how strongly one weighs the vocabulary....

 From Frisian. I think Dutch/Afrikaans is indeed closer, but Low Saxon is
quite near too. Linguistically (historically) we have many connections
between Frisian and Low Saxon. Eg both have umlauted long vowels, and Dutch
and Afrikaans have not. I also noted many relations in idioms and
agricultural vocabulary and the latter these are often not taken into
account in studies like you mentioned.

> If Low Saxon's relation to English was investigated, it would show to
> be
> even further off from English than Frisian is, no doubt. This shows
> that
> old kinship can easily drift apart, no matter what people think or
> want to
> believe

This is quite clear, certainly after English' turbulent history. Still, it
doesn't dispappear completely, it sort of dillutes in a sea of change....

> Ingmar

Mei freonlike groetnis,

Henno Brandsma

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From: Críostóir Ó Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.03.22 (04) [E]


Ingmar wrote:
"Btw, Frisian is often claimed (by Frisians) to be the most closely related
cognate of English. Through one of your links I came to a study that pointed
out that this isn't true at all, anymore.
Friesland Frisian's closest cognate is Dutch, then Afrikaans, then Low
Saxon, then German, then the Continental Scandinavian languages, only then
English and finally Faroese and Icelandic."

After taking the Frisian-English connections at face value from childhood
onward, I was both surprised and disappointed to find how close Frisian has
become to Dutch when I encountered my first lengthy Frisian written text and
my first Frisian speaker. The relationship between the two languages, in my
opinion, is much like that between standard English and Scots. Certainly an
English speaker has to look harder or listen more closely to Frisian to find
the ancestral linkages with English than he or she does to see or hear
linkages with Modern Dutch.

Go raibh ma ith agat,

Criostóir.

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