LL-L "Language survival" 2005.03.30 (06) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 30.MAR.2005 (06) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language survival" 2005.03.29 (05) [E]

Hi Ron & everybody,

There are indeed cases like this around the world.

But there are also cases where elders believe that the language dying
is a punishment from the spirit world/ from god/ whatever for sins of
the people.

An example of this is the Hopi. Hopi, moreso than most languages of
the same type, is considered to be a sort of secret to such a degree
that an elective Hopi language class in a Tuba City highschool was
cancelled because state laws meant Navajo kids would be allowed to
take the class as well. When a Hopi dictionary (go to Amazon and
search for hopiikwa lavaytutuveni - it's amazing) was in the works of
being published by a university with cooperation from elders and
tribal government, a few elders and families formed a group to protest
it because of its availability to the outside world. Because of this,
they decided to print less copies and in doing that raised the price a
fair bit, but gave discounts for Hopis.

Many Hopi elders believe that efforts to revive the Hopi language
(still very vibrant, one of the more well-off NA languages in the US,
but going downhill slowly) are wrong, and that if the Hopi language
dies, it was the will of the holy people as a punishment for sinful
behaviour, and if it lives that is the will of the holy people, and
humans should not interfere either way.

I don't know if this attitude exists in any Lowlands languages, but I
know it is found elsewhere in the world as well, although it usually
isn't a view held by all speakers of the language.

In summary, there are many, many obstacles to language survival, some
of which are self-imposed, but if the people are determined and learn
which methods are effective, they can usually revive it with great
success.

Mark

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From: Arthur Jones <arthurobin2002 at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language survival" 2005.03.28 (15) [E]


Dear Mark, Mike, Ron, and all others interested in Lowlands survival!

First, let me say how overjoyed I am that this productive dialogue is now
happening on the intertwined topics of survival, orthography, propagation
and cultural pressures. I recall that, during the 1970s, I enjoyed
participating in a similar dialogue about Rhaeto-Romansch and Ladin in the
Swiss and Italian Alps.

Also, even though I would never insult any of you by trying to write my
submissions in my broken, pitiable Vlaams, Neddersaessisch, Friisk or
Afrikaans, I greet each and every one of your conversations in those honest,
clear languages as if they were a box of chocolates that had just arrived
each day by email. They --and you all-- are a positive delight.

The lesson here is that extinction is not inevitable.

As to written language: Ron is right on the button. Writing is but one
conditio sine qua non of language survival. It is not, however, a guarantee.
Other factors also must be present for survival, such as political,
economic, social, cultural and technological presence.

I believe I had mentioned some weeks ago --not sure it appeared-- that
governmental parochialism combines with campanilism (bell tower: folks are
"different" beyond the sound of the village church bells. Don't trust them)
to snuff out minority languages.

A body of literature in any language certainly helps it survive. One of you
mentioned extinct written languages: Latin, Tocharian, Hittite, Gothic,
Coptic. Yet, Latin sired a number of very lovely daughters (Portuguese,
Spanish, Catalan, French, Romansch, Occitanian, Italian, Romanian), thus
still lives. Old Norse had direct descendants, as did Old Armenian and
classical Greek. The grizzled, grey-bearded clan patriarch has passed on,
but still lives through his children.

Also, Latin and its progeny finally learned the use of universal literacy
and education. This surely makes a great difference in survival chances.
Take Tocharian and Hittite: Both became separated from their own central
population base, and both limited writing to a very tiny elite. Still,
Hittite left its mark before its last traces were extinguished by the
sacking of Troy. The name "Parnassus" was likely Hittite, being "parn"
(engl. barn), + "assus" (engl. realm, region). It described a ridge of
Alpine meadows and haysheds. "Khaukh-assus" (Hitt. "high region") still
lives as Caucasus. The Gothic expression for the same thing was practically
indistinguishable from the Hittite, despite thousands of years of
separation.

Gothic died out partly because Goths refused to make writing universal.
Gothic kings in Spain and France were unable to collect and distribute tax
money because they could not keep accounts. This weakened their hold on
their kingdoms considerably. Thus, your examples of refusal to give in to
modernity certainly hold true here.

Also, we have almost no trace of the languages of the Alans, Gepids,
Langobards, Vandals, Etruscans or Huns. Yet, at one time or another, all of
them were military powers. So having an army doesn't guarantee survival
either.

Aramaic is another good example. Under voracious pressure from Arabic and
Hebrew, it nearly disappeared more than once. Aramaic survived by teaching
its young people to read and write, and also developed a "useful skill" for
survival: accounting. Aramaic accountants kept books for early traders
throughout Anatolia, the Caucasus and around the Black Sea. they were the
predecessors of the Genoese/Italian accountants who developed modern
double-entry bookkeeping. But if Aramaic really wants to survive now, its
speakers should fight to develop another "useful skill".

The same may apply to Lowlands. We need a "useful skill" to spread around.
We must stake a claim to survival.  Why don't we give ourselves, as a group
of well-meaning amateurs, a deadline for adoption of a common, standard,
simple orthography for Lowlands tongues?

Then, let's start writing. What about cookbooks (in Lowlands & English: lots
of recipes, folk tales, pics)? Too, perhaps we should start translating
pertinent legislation from the EU and from The Netherlands, Belgium and
Germany into Lowlands, together with simple contract forms, "how-to" tips
for labor law, landlord and tenant, small business handbooks. We could
spread them through Reinhard Hahn's electronic network. Translate papers
presented at minority language conferences into Lowlands. Lobby for local TV
and radio coverage/time.

This would strengthen our case for official recognition in courts,
parliaments, and schools.

Sorry for the "filuwaurdeis" (Gothic: running off at the mouth).

Met vriendelijke Groetens,

Arthur

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language survival

Thanks for your interesting posts above, Mark and Arthur!

Mark, I have come across and have heard about "language secrecy" before,
particularly with regard to Native American and Australian languages and
also with regard to Romany varieties. I once asked a mainstream-educated Rom
("Gypsy") what this secrecy is about, and he explained that the speakers
guard their language as an integral part of their culture, which they view
as private ("tribe-internal") as well as inseparable from their ethnicity.
They can communicate in the various _Gadzhe_ (non-Roma) languages and see no
need for outsiders to know theirs, possibly with a view at meddling in their
affairs.  (This is also why they often deliberately dish out misinformation
to linguists, anthropologists, etc.)  Furthermore, there are remnants of an
ancient Indian kaste-based belief system whereby outsiders (even Roma of
other "tribes" or clans) are likely to cause pollution by virtue of mere
contact and use of the language.  The overriding idea in many of such cases
seems to be that outsiders have no ligitimate need and use of such language
varieties, that the language is used internally as long as the corresponding
ethnicity is alive, that it is not kosher to keep it alive in the hands and
mouths of aliens now or thereafter.

Thanks for your words of encouragement, Arthur.

I take issue with one thing, though:

> We could spread them through Reinhard Hahn's electronic network.

Irrespective of the neologism "list owner," I'd like to think that this
electronic network is *ours* rather than just *mine*.  I believe that each
of us holds a share of this enterprise, that at least the vocals amongst us
direct it, and that the List thus is what it is because of what its members
(and I prefer that to "subscribers") make it.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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