LL-L "Etymology" 2005.05.06 (01) [A/E]

Fri May 6 17:16:04 UTC 2005

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
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From: Global Moose Translations <globalmoose at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.05.05 (02) [E]

Theo wrote:
> Gabriele,
>
> Did they ever call you "een helleveeg" .
> I don't guess so. Right is that this word only is used
> for women. And right is: "veeg" meaning "sweep".
>
> But -alas- not in this word. There is an other word
> 'veeg' [with very old roots] meaning: 'going to die'.
> The same word we have in the expression: het vege lijf
> redden.
> So in 'helleveeg' you not only wishes someone to die,
> but also going to hel. [original meaning of 'hel'
> being 'hiding-place'].

Thanks for the explanation. And thanks for your high opinion, but as a
matter of fact, I seem to remember having been called a "helleveeg", besides
other things, by my Dutch ex-husband... ;-)

So is there anything similar to this meaning of "veeg" in other Lowlands
languages?

Gabriele Kahn

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From: Elsie Zinsser <ezinsser at icon.co.za>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.05.06

Haai almal,

'Helleveeg' is ook bekend in Afrikaans en waarskynlik uit Nederlands.

Ron, die Duitse _Fegefeuer_ 'purgatory' is ook in Afrikaans as 'vaevuur'
bekend.

Dalk is die herkoms betekenis van Fege/veeg/vae  'verdoem'/verdammen'?

Groete,
Elsie

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From: Ben Bloomgren <ben.bloomgren at asu.edu>
Subject: Etymology

Hi, all, is there any relationship between Dutch "bos" and Spanish "bosque"
pronounced boskay?
Ben

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From: Theo Homan <theohoman at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.05.05 (02) [E]

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Etymology
>
> Thanks, Theo.
>
> > 'veeg' [with very old roots] meaning: 'going to
> die'.
> > The same word we have in the expression: het vege
> lijf
> > redden.
>
> So is this the same one that precedes "fire" in
> German _Fegefeuer_
> 'purgatory'?  I would assume so, if the meaning is
> 'to be bound to perish'
> ('to be bound to be purged') as opposed to attaining
> everlasting life.
>
> Regards,
> Reinhard/Ron

Yes, Reinhard, you're right.
Your 'Fegefeuer' is in the same family, as is the
dutch 'vagevuur'.

Now the word Fegefeuer is not as old as 'hel', as the
Fegefeuer is an invention of Augustine -yes the Saint
Augustine - who seemed to have invented quite a lot of
theological modernisms. If my memory serves me well on
this hour, the Vatican did the Purgatory drift away
through the backdoor in their last big edition of the
Cathegism (spelling right?), so making Saint Augustine
a bit less saint.
[Augustine also invented a couple of hundreds of
sacraments... you have to do something to become a
saint.]

The notion of fire in the purgatory / Fegefeuer
without doubt is taken of the eternal fire in hel. And
if my memory is willing to serve me again, this
'hel-fire' has something to do with
bible-translations. In the bible there are three
different words who were all translated with 'hel'.
One of these words was the word denoting the
thrash-pile outside the walls of Jeruzalem, and this
thrash-pile was always burning. And so were we
supposed to do in hel, since this translation. And a
bit later also in purgatory.
Well, so far so good. This is my homily for today.

vr.gr.
Theo Homan

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Thanks a lot, Theo.  This is very interesting.  See, your first explanation
made that link in my mind.  I remember wondering as a child what _Fegefeuer_
(purgatory) had to do with sweeping.  Later I found out about the word for
the burning scrap heap (what was its name again? *_ge`enna_ or *_gehenna_?)
outside Jerusalem having been used for 'purgatory', so I was thinking
"trash -> sweeping".  ;-)  Made sense then.

Well, it turns out that Old English has a cognate: _fǣge_ (_fae^ge_) 'bound
to perish', 'moribund', 'going to be discarded', 'weakening', 'fading away',
'worsening', etc. (encompassing everything I would casually refer to as
"going to hell in a handbasket").  I cannot come up with anything in Gothic,
Old Franconian and Old Frisian. Old Saxon has _fêgi_  and Old German _feigi_
with exactly the same meaning.  Old Norse has _feigð_ 'imminent death' and
_feigr_ 'moribund', 'recently died'.  Middle Dutch has _vêge_ and Middle
German _veige_, the latter giving Modern German _feige_ 'cowardly'.  Modern
English still has the now rarely used offspring "fey" in the sense of
'doomed to die', 'fatal', 'accursed', with the derivatives "feyly" and
"feydom."

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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