LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.05.21 (03) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 21.MAY.2005 (03) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Þjóðríkr Þjóðreksson <didimasure at hotmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.05.20 (09) [E]


Very much thanks for the answer, Ingmar! µ
Over here there are also some people who say gij bent and bende gij,
probably because they want to imitate Standard Dutch. My sister says 'moog
jij' very seldomly, she always corrects it to 'mag jij' a second later but
still there seems to be some confusion among some people between the jij/gij
verbal forms.
I've also seen gij mag in some N.Br. dialect in an online text.

And you are right in your observation about the similarities to
Verkavelignsvlaams. As a native speaker of that variety I know it very well,
and except for the bende gij (where I invariably say zijde gij) I would
speak exactly the same! (It looks me a it improbable that this is Antwerpian
influence though.)
I really hope when I'll be studying in Amsterdam next year, that I'll have
some people from very much different dialects in my class, some from Brabant
as well. I wonder if they would, hearing me speak with my accent (which I'll
NO WAY be giving up for speaking St. Du. like I heard some Flemish students
over there), also start talking more with their native accent or not.

Diederik Masure

>From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
>Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.05.20 (07) [E]
>
>Good question, Diederik. <Gij> is still very much alive in
>Noord-Brabant.
>When I came to live there, about 17 years ago, my fellow students,
>young
>people with good education and living in quite a big city (200.000
>inh.)
>frequently used <gij> in informal situations amongst each other, and
><jij>
>in other cases, e.g. when addressing to me, a "Northener" or in any
>situation they felt they should speak "netjes" (civilized). My first
>local
>girlfriend was from West-Brabant, and her mother used to say <gij>
>all the
>time. Later I had another girlfriend whose family I visited many
>times, in
>a town between Eindhoven, Den Bosch and Tilburg, and they always
>spoke the
>local dialect to each other; her mother switched to <jij> when she
>spoke
>with me, but her father stuck to <gij>, so did one of her sisters,
>but not
>the other one. José herself always called me <jij>, she always
>spoke Dutch
>with a Brabant accent to me, and in fact to anyone outside her
>family.
>Some of my best friends in Eindhoven also say both <gij> and <jij>,
>depending on the situation, their moods, whose company they're in
>etc.
>One moved to Lommel, Belgium, some years ago, and I think he always
>speaks
>Brabant dialect with his neighbours there, as do many
>Noord-Brabanders
>when they go across the border. Although Lommel is officialy in
>Belgium
>Limburg, the dialect is clearly of the Brabant type.
>Barbara, my wife, is a born Brabantse schone, but her parents raised
>her
>in Standard Dutch - with Brabant accent. I've heard her mom use
><gij> to
>her brothers and sisters however.
>
>In Noord-Brabant a special kind of Dutch is spoken, almost everyone
>has a
>certain accent which is immediately recognizable, even when the rest
>of
>their language is almost completely Standard Dutch.
>Some words from the dialect are very persistant also when Dutch is
>spoken,
>and one of it is <gij>. The funny thing is that Br. <zijde (gij)>
>becomes
>Br. Dutch <bende (gij)>, St Dutch <ben jij> = are you?, Br. <wè>
>and <dè>
>become <wa>, <da>, D. <wat>, <dat> = what, that, <nie> = D. <niet>,
><motte (gij) dè menneke naw toch is heure> becomes <moete (gij) da
>manneke
>naw toch is hore> D. <moet je dat jongetje n(o)u toch eens horen>
>etc.
>
>Brab.: zedde (gij) vanmerge nonnie thous gewist, wè's dè nauw
>toch?
>Br.D.: bende (gij) vanmorge nonnie thuis geweest, wa's da nou toch?
>Dutch: ben je vanmorgen nog niet thuis geweest, wat is dat nu toch?
>
>So maybe that isn't so much unlike the <Verkavelings-Vlaams>:
>most is Standard Dutch but with clear local coloration by some
><markers>
>
>Ingmar

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