LL-L "Morphology" 2005.11.12 (04) [E]

Sat Nov 12 23:25:13 UTC 2005

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   L O W L A N D S - L * 12 November 2005 * Volume 04
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From:  Reuben Epp <reuben at uniserve.com>
Subject: LL-L "Morphology" 2005.11.12 (01) [E]

Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL> wrote:
Subject: LL-L "Morphology" 2005.11.11 (04) [E]

For the Eastern parts of Low Saxon, I think the origin may lay in the
Netherlands (including Flanders), because it's a well known fact that some
of these areas were settled from the Northern and especially the Southern
Netherlands (i.e. present day Belgium). The Slavonic and/or Baltic use may
have supported the use of diminutives there.
Groeten
Ingmar

Reuben Epp:  reuben at uniserve.com replies:

Dear Lowlanders,

Some may be interested, even surprised, to learn that Plautdietsch, 
Mennonite Low German, of
Eastern (Prussian) origin is loaded with diminutives, frequently extending 
into double-diminutives.

An example among many is that for 'little girl.'
In German, she (it) would be referred to as 'Mädchen,' somewhat equivalent 
to English 'maiden.' In Plautdietsch this noun would be written and spoken 
as either 'Mäatje' or 'Mäakje,' depending on dialectical orientation of the 
speaker/writer. It is simply a diminutive form of the noun for 'girl.'

To describe a sweet little female child, Plautdietsch applies the double 
diminutive and refers to her as 'een Mäatjstje' or 'een Mäakjstje.'

Other double diminutives in Plautdietsch are rather too numerous for pursuit 
in this format.

Cheers!

Reuben Epp

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Morphology

Hello, dear Reuben!

It is great to have you back in the thick of things.  And thanks for 
pointing out the double diminutives in Plautdietsch.

Double diminutives (also know as imminutives) occur very frequently within 
the Indo-European groups that are generous with diminution.

In the Romance group we have for instance Italian and other Italo-Romance 
varieties in which diminution may apply on two levels: _-in-_ for plain 
diminutive and _-ett-_ with an endearing ("cute," "sweet," "dear") quality 
added; e.g.,

feminine singular:
   strada 'road', 'street'
   stradina 'small and narrow street'
   stradetta '(dear/cute) small and narrow street'

masculine singular:
   ucello 'bird'*
   ucellino 'little bird'
   ucelletto '(sweet) little birdie'

feminine plural (palla -> palle):
   palle 'balls'
   palline 'small balls'
   pallette '(cute) little balls'

masculine plural (ragazzo -> ragazzi):
   ragazzi 'boy'
   ragazzini 'young (little) boys'
   ragazzetti '(cute) little boys'

*_Ucello_ is interesting in that it comes as a diminutive, namely from Latin 
_avicellus_ 'little bird' < _avis_ 'bird'.  However, _ucello_ is lexicalized 
as such and is thus not very consciously perceived as a diminutive form, 
since in Italian its base form cannot deduced.  This would be similar to a 
case like German diminutive-derived _Mädchen_ 'girl' versus original _Magd_ 
'(farmer's) maid', which the average German speaker does not link.

It must be assumed that the Italian two-level diminutive forms are 
lexicalized, in other words, that they cannot be freely derived.  Proof of 
this is that many such derivations either would be wrong (e.g., _gatto_ 
'cat' > _gattino_ 'kitten', but not *_gattetto_) or would be semantically 
specialized (e.g., _carro_ 'chariot' > _carrello_ 'trolley' > _caretto_ 
'cart').

In Slavonic, too, you get two levels of diminution, the second level being 
something of a double-diminutive; e.g.

Polish:
   dom 'house'
   domek 'little/small house', 'cottage' (< *dom+ek)
   domeczek '(cute/dear) little house' (< *dom+ek+ek)

Upper Sorbia:
   dźěćo 'child'
   dźěćak 'small child', 'kiddo'  (< *diet'+ak)
   dźěćatko 'kiddy' (< *diet'+ak+ko?)

Ukrainian
   дуб dub 'oak tree'
   дубок dubok 'small oak tree' (< *dub+ok)
   дубочок dubočok '(dear) little oak tree' (< *dub+ok+ok)

And (in extension?) in Eastern Yiddish (Germanic):
   kind 'child'
   kindl 'little child' (< *kind+el)
   kindele 'sweet little child' (< *kind+el+e)

I am wondering if in this regard we may talk about "arial features," namely 
features that are present or absent within a *geographical* region 
irrespective of linguistic genealogy.  Given the relative scarsity of 
diminutive use in Scandinavian and Central Low Saxon (i.e., varieties used 
outside the spheres of direct Franconian and Slavonic influence), in 
combination with what we know about Germanic migration/spread, I might go as 
far as to speculate that Germanic originally came with little of no 
diminution and at its farthest reaches acquire this feature or underwent 
increased application of it as a result of language contacts--in the east 
contacts with Slavonic and Baltic, and in the west and south contacts with 
Romance (_Welsch_), especially in Franconian (northwest), Alemannic 
(southwest) and Bayuvarian (south) which have some roots in both Celtic and 
Romance.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron 

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