LL-L "Etymology" 2005.09.15 (05) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
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From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology"

Leyve Lowlanners,
(English below)

hett einer van jou mool dennen Uutdruck 'sör de Tied', G: 'seit der Zeit',
E: 'since that time' höört?
Schull de Praeposition 'sör' woll van 't Franzöössche 'sur' herkoomen?

Dit Wourd hevv ick güstern tou 'n eyrsten Mool in unsen eygen Dialekt höört.

.....

Dear Lowlanders,

did anyone of you ever hear about the expression LS: 'sör de Tied', G: 'seit
der Zeit', E:: 'since that time'?
Could the preposition 'sör' be a French loan, from 'sur'?

I learned this word yesterday, and I've never heard it used before in our
local dialect.

Greutens/Regards

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

[English below]

Leyve Jonny, myn maat,

Ja, "sör" (<sörr>) kümt vun "sörrer" af, und dat vun "södder" (-dd- > -rr-: 
"flapping"), 'n anner wourd voer _syt_ (<siet>), Duytsch _seit_, Ingelsch 
_since_, Schotsch _syne_.

"Södder" is vun Old-Sassisch _sîth_ 'glyks achter ran (in tyd)', 'södder', 
'den', 'daar up', 'later' af-kamen.  Tjer, eynklich keym _södder_ vun de 
langere vorm _sîthor_ mit dat sülvige beduyden af.  Verwandt daar mit is 
_sîthon_ 'weg-gaan', 'raysen'.

Old-Ingelsch het _siððon_ mit de körter vorm _siþ_ in den sülvigen sin. 
In't Middel-Ingelsche is uut /sið-/ _siþ_ un _-ence_ _sithence_ worden, 
later körter _since_, ook _sin_ ~ _syne_ un _sithen_.

Hyr hebt wy 't mit Ingveonismen to doun.  'n Old /n/ is voer /ð/ weg-vullen; 
daar wegen Germaansch *_sinþan_ 'weg-gaan' < Indo-Europeesch *_sêi-_ 
'senden'.

***

Dear Jonny, me mate,

_Sör_ is derived from _sörrer_, which came from _södder_ (-dd- > -rr-: 
"flapping"), another word for _syt_ (<siet>), German _seit_, English 
_since_, Scots _syne_.

_Södder_ goes back to Old Saxon _sîth_ 'thereupon', 'since', 'then', '(not 
much) later'.  Actually, it's derived from the extended form _sîthor_ with 
the same meaning.  It is related to _sîthon_ 'depart', 'travel'.

Old English has _siððon_ which comes from _siþ_, also with the same meaning. 
Middle English combined /sið-/ _siþ_ and _-ence_ to _sithence_, then 
shortened this to _since_, also to _sin_ ~ _syne_ un _sithen_.

We are dealing with Ingveonisms here.  Old /n/ has been deleted before /ð/; 
hence Germanic *_sinþan_ 'depart' < Indo-European *_sêi-_ 'send'.

Kumpelmenten/Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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