LL-L "Etymology" 2005.09.29 (05) [A/D/E]

Fri Sep 30 04:09:15 UTC 2005

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Kevin Caldwell <kevin.caldwell1963 at verizon.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.09.28 (09) [D/E]

> From: Global Moose Translations <globalmoose at t-online.de>
> Subject: LL-L "Morphology" 2005.09.28 (04) [A/E]
>
> Actually, it is even used twice in the traditional Irish
> song "Finnegan's Wake", which James Joyce also used as the
> title of one of his books. By the way, in America they're
> gobstoppers...

Well, technically, the title of Joyce's book is "Finnegans Wake" (no 
apostrophe). Also, I've only ever heard the term "gobstoppers" in connection 
with Roald Dahl's "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" (and in the film 
verion, "Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory"), in which one of Willy 
Wonka's experimental candies is called the Everlasting Gobstopper. "Gob" is 
another word for "mouth".

Kevin Caldwell

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From: heather rendall <HeatherRendall at compuserve.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.09.28 (09) [D/E]

from the OED

Gob

perhaps related to Gaelic gob   beak, bill   Irish  gob   bill, mouth
Scots  & North English   mouth
But much used elsewhere.

They say it comes from Old French  gobe - a mouthful

As a child in the 50s in Sussex to tell someone to 'shut yer gob'  was
considered the height of rudeness   ( Oh! Blessed days!)

'gobsmacked'  i.e. dumbfounded , stuck for words -  is now so well known
that it appears regulary in vox pops all over the UK

Also it means a lump  i.e. a gob of spit or phlegm - hence the new coinage
of a verb to gob which means to spit at someone and much used on the
football terraces and also now  in school playgrounds. I wonder why?

Heather

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From: Jo Thys <jo.thijs1 at telenet.be>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.09.28 (09) [D/E]

Hoi Mark, Ingmar,

>Bestaan daar enige verwantskap met Afr. 'gaap' = yawn, gape;
>ginnegaap = natter, gossip?

In het Nederlands blijkt gaps (handvol) ook te bestaan, eigenlijk de holle
hand, eerst genoteerd bij Killiaan en verwant met gapen, d.i. openstaan (van
Dale). Ginnegappen overigens ook, samengesteld uit ginniken en gabben
(verwant met gapen) die beide spottend lachen betekenen.

Gaps also exists in Dutch, meaning the open hand, cognate with gapen ( to
'stand' open, to yawn) (Md, Mlg gapen, Mhg gaffen, Onorse gapa, Oind
haphika) while eng yawn (Oe ganian) is closer related to Ohg gien and Lat.
hiare. (to yawn).
(according van Dale)

Vriendelijke groete,

Jo Thys

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From: Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.09.28 (09) [D/E]

Beste Ingmar

Onderwerp "Morphology"

> Nee, Afrikaans 'gap' komt van het Nederlands 'gappen', dat is stelen,
> wegnemen, afpakken enzovoort. En NL 'gappen' komt uit het
> Jiddisch 'chappen', en dat heeft het weer geleend uit het Pools.
> Maar het heeft dus niets met Nedersaksisch 'göpse' = tweehandenvol
> te maken...

Dankie daarvoor. Ek dra wel kennis van die Jodeduits 'chops' (ons Jode is
die meerderheid Litvak, as dit van belang is). Ek dog net 'n gemene
oorsprong, nê!

Totsiens,
Mark

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From: Henno Brandsma <hennobrandsma at hetnet.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.09.29 (02) [E]

> From: R. F. Hahn <lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net>
> Subject: Etymology
>
> OK, so I get to do a monologue for a while, because the server,
> refusing to receive mail, is still sending mail to our mail server.
>
> Here's another tasty morsel for you etymologists.
>
> The English word "tram," as in "tramway" (American English
> "streetcar"), is either related to or derived from Low Saxon,
> probably from Middle Saxon of the Hanseatic period.
>
> The _Oxford English Dictionary_ is one of those that point this
> out, but it is rather tentative about it.
>
> Apparently, the English word "tram" comes from Scots, and in Scots
> it can be attested as far back as the 15th century (at which time
> the Hanseatic Trading League was still going strong).  The Low
> Saxon word supposedly connected with this is _traam_, as found in
> ann 18th-century dictionary. The _OED_ further gives the following
> cognates:
> "EFris. _trame_, _trâm_ beam of wood, rung or step of a ladder, bar
> of a chair, tram of a wheelbarrow; in MLG. _trame_, _treme_, MDu.
> _trame_ balk or beam, rung of a ladder, etc.; WFlem. _traam_,
> _trame_."  The common meaning is  ‘balk, beam, e.g. of a
> wheelbarrow or dung-sledge, tram, handle of a barrow or sledge,
> also a rung or step of a ladder, bar of a chair’.

This seems very much like a relative of W. Frisian "trime" (or in the
recently sketched alternative spelling "tryme", so [trim@]),
which means rung of a ladder, stage/phase (of a process). I haven't
looked in Spenter yet (an etymological study of the Schiermonnikoog
dialect that gives many etymologies also for the mainland Frisian
cognates) to check for other relations.

probably "*treem" would be the Dutch cognate, if it exists (maybe in
dialects?)

Regards,

Henno

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