LL-L "Lexicon" 2006.04.01 (02) [E/LS]

Sun Apr 2 20:27:05 UTC 2006

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   L O W L A N D S - L * 02 April 2006 * Volume 01
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From: Gary Taylor <gary_taylor_98 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Lowlands-L Idiomatica

Hi Marcel and all

you asked about Sranantongo for future. My dictionary
has two words, 'futuru' and 'konten'.

Gary

http://hometown.aol.com/taylor16471/myhomepage/index.html

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From: Marcel Bas <marcelbas at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2006.04.01 (06) [E]

Dear Ron, Igmar,

Thank you Ron, for the exhaustive explanation, and for supplying us with the 
Indic and even the Old English words that denote future! As you said, words 
that denote _future_ are usually derivatives of words with another meaning. 
Of course, that is normal in languages. The Indo European corpus of roots is 
so small compared to the corpus of - say - the Latin corpus of IE 
derivatives. Obviously, most words contain roots that hsve another original 
meaning. Even the English Latinate word _future_ comes from Indo-European 
*bheuo-, and is related to Germanic verbs such as _to be_, Old Irish _buith_ 
'to be', Latin _fio_ 'to become', Oscan _fui_ 'I have been', Greek _phúo_ 'I 
beget'.

As you can see, language attitudes are very strongly associated with 
identity markers such as (alledged) mentality, the lack of certain words, 
differences in thinking, agrarian or hunter-gatherer societies, etc. I will 
be the last one to state that old, traditional and even aristocratic 
cultures are 'primitive'! And I don't want to get into ethnical quarrels in 
Surinam (of which I wasn't aware until this week), butr Ingmar's use of the 
word 'fascist'  by which he attempts to characterise disdainful attitudes of 
some Hinustani, is really over the top. Are disdainful Hindu's in Surinam 
praying for the rise of one strong leader and a police state? Are they 
wearing black paramilitary uniforms when they are at home? Do they read 
powerful exhortations and poetry from Italian activists from the 
interbellum? Of course not. What is going on in cases is merely --  
regardless if it is morally justified by our postmodern standards -- the 
sense of cultural superiority (group identity), which is as old as Homo 
sapiens sapiens.

Ron, I could ask the colleague to translate the Wren's story into Sarnami, 
and have him read it on my future (!) voice recorder. I don't know if he is 
into Sranantongo that much, but another colleague is from Curaçao 
("Korsao"), and he speaks beautiful Papiamentu. How about that? I will try, 
OK?

Te wi miti baka!

Marcel.

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Lexicon

Marcel:

> Ron, I could ask the colleague to translate the Wren's story into Sarnami,
> and have him read it on my future (!) voice recorder. I don't know if he 
> is
> into Sranantongo that much, but another colleague is from Curaçao
> ("Korsao"), and he speaks beautiful Papiamentu. How about that?
> I will try, OK?

Thanks, Marcel.  That would be great, also if that second person could take 
an editor's pen to my Papiamentu translation and/or narrate it.

http://www.lowlands-l.net/anniversary/index.php?page=papiamentu

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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From: Pat Reynolds <pat at caerlas.demon.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2006.04.01 (02) [E]

<lowlands-l at LOWLANDS-L.NET> writes
>In the Laurel and Hardy film "The Music Box" the word "stoop" seems to
>be used (several times) to refer to the entire concrete staircase
>they're trying to get the box up. This is something like one or two
>hundred steps from the road at the bottom up a grassy embankment to the
>row of houses at the top.
>
>Sandy Fleming
>http://scotstext.org/
Hmm... I wonder if in American Dutch, _stoep_ extended it's meaning to
cover _bordes_. (I hope I have understood the nature of bordessen
correctly - I have only come across the word in texts discussing
landscapes/buildings in Surinam and India: buildings on hills needing
flights of steps.  I don't think that bordes also applies to the steps
which are integral to a stoep (particularly where the entrance of the
building is half- or full-storey above ground level).

Cheers,

Pat
-- 
Pat Reynolds
pat at caerlas.demon.co.uk
   "It might look a bit messy now,
                    but just you come back in 500 years time"
   (T. Pratchett)

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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2006.04.01 (02) [E]

From: Marcel Bas
Re the lack of a "future" word in Sranantongo, and time concepts in language 
in general;

>From Paul Finlow-Bates:
Of related interest to this is an article in "New Scientist a few weeks ago. 
The Piraha people number about 350, living along the central Amazon.  They 
appear to have no real time related terms, and no number system.  They asked 
linguist Dan Everett (the only outsider ever to learn their language) to 
teach them to count in Portuguese so they could know if traders were 
cheating them.  After 8 months they gave up; not one could count to 10, or 
even add 1 plus 1 - the concept was just too alien.  The only family 
relationship terms are "son" and "daughter".

Their language has only 7 consonant sounds for women, 8 for men, and three 
vowels, but they have a complex system of stress and tone that make it very 
hard to learn - Everett took over 3 years of regular contact.  The use of 
tone is so important, they regularly burst into song in a normal 
conversation.

Yet they aren't isolated in any sense; indeed their lack parentage terms 
indicates a complete disinterest in who is descended from whom - many Piraha 
kids are fathered by outsiders.

Everett claims that they demonstrate the enormous importance of language to 
mind-set, and that many of the so-called universal human concepts are 
completely absent in societies with no words for them.  He has his critics, 
but as he points out, unless they're prepared to invest the time to learn 
Piraha, they can hardly contribute much in detail!  The people aren't 
hostile, quite the reverse, and happy to share the language with anyone who 
can be bothered; it's just that so far only Everett has managed.

Paul 

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