LL-L "Language varieties" 2006.04.04 (02) [D/E]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org or lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Commands ("signoff lowlands-l" etc.): listserv at listserv.net
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
=======================================================================

04 April 2006 * Volume 02
=======================================================================

From: Marcel Bas <marcelbas at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2006.04.03 (03) [E]


Ingmar schreef:

>Ja, but 'fascist' is a heavy-laden term, and I certainly don't want to
>accuse your colleague who I don't know at all, so I withdrew this.
>You know, our fellow Dutch often think that everything that can be said,
>should be said, even if it is offensive, thinking it is 'honest', that's
>why internationally we've got the reputation of being rude (bot), well,
>I don't like that attitude at all, but obviously my Hindustatement was an
>example of it, and again I apologize.

Daarover ben ik het met je eens! Persoonlijk ben ik ook het type dat liever 
vriendelijk uit de hoek komt dan boud en onvriendelijk.Veel Nederlanders 
zijn nogal lomp, inderdaad. En de benaming 'fascist' ligt bij mij dan ook 
nogal gevoelig. 'Fascist' wordt meestal geheel uit z'n verband gerukt en op 
a-historische, kwetsende wijze gebruikt, om een discussie de kop in te 
drukken. Dat gaat in Nederland al sinds 1945 onverminderd zo voort. Er zijn 
mensen en opponenten die mij verachten vanwege mijn opvattingen op het 
gebied van multiculturalisme en mijn voorliefde voor de oorspronkelijke 
Europese cultuur en voor de Afrikaanse taal en cultuur. Die tegenstanders 
noemen mij dan zelfs ook openlijk fascist. Terwijl ik toch echt geen zwarte 
uniforms draag, en niet populisme en geweld verheerlijk of bepaalde oude 
Duitsers en Italianen bewonder.

Je schreef verder:

>By the way, Marcel, where are you from - do you speak any dialect?

Unfortunatley, I don't! That is a cross that I will have to bear. I speak 
the Haarlem dialect, commonly referred to as ABN/AN (Algemeen [Beschaafd] 
Nederlands): Standard Dutch. I wish I did speak a dialect, as well. A 
fortnight ago I got the opportunity to say in an interview on national radio 
(do you know the radio show 'Cappuccino' on NRCV?) that 'Algemeen 
_Beschaafd_ Nederlands' is an incorrect term, since dialect speakers are not 
indecent (onbeschaafd). About that I got some positive feedback from the 
eastern regions of the Netherlands!

Since my speech is Standard Dutch, I am particularly fond of that language, 
I like keeping it the way it is (that is a conservative's prerogative: 
acting against all language dynamics, pulling the brakes), so with as little 
new loanwords as possible, well pronounced, with rich vocabulary, good 
syntax, etc. I live in Voorschoten, where most people speak Standard Dutch. 
That is quite rare in Holland, as you know. Standard Dutch is prestigious, 
and people in Voorschoten are half-urban, well-off people. In the areas 
where houses are less expensive you hear local accents. But compared to 
Standard Dutch Voorschotens can, unfortunately, hardly be regarded a 
dialect.

On the other hand, I have tried to learn Stellingwarfs but in 2001, when I 
started my English studies at university there was no more time for that. I 
intend to resume Stellingwarfs once I have graduated.
Furthermore I like imitating all kinds of accents (so Leiden and The Hague 
dialects are not so difficult for me). I speak some Friesian. Languages that 
I have actually mastered are not so very many: English, Afrikaans, German, 
French, Russian and Carinthian (a south-central Bavarian dialect in 
Carinthia, Austria). Spanish, Italian, Catalan, Polish are some of those 
languages that I have studied, but not well enough to say that I can speak 
those languages.

At Leiden University I now do not only read English Language & Culture, but 
also Indo-European Comparative Linguistics (Proto-Indo-European) and Old 
Icelandic. Proto-Indo-European Language, Indo-European Culture and Old 
Icelandic are probably the most interesting subjects that I have yet done at 
university. The only thing is that speakers of both languages have been dead 
for donkey's years.

I see that you speak several dialects; two Low Saxon dialects, as well as 
Folkspraak! And you speak 'my' Haarlem dialect, of course. It's great to see 
that you keep the local languages high, instead of treating them with a 
somewhat condescending attitude as if dialects are an inferior 'variety' of 
Dutch, with a social stigma (it's a language of the unlearned; it is an 
obstacle on the way to a career, etc.) I guess loss of prestige, combined 
with stigmatisation will kill any language, unless action is taken. It can 
also happen to official languages. Dutch, Afrikaans...

After all, an official language is a dialect with official status and a 
wider use.

Best regards,

Marcel. 

==============================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
======================================================================