LL-L "Etymology" 2006.04.13 (01) [D/E]

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13 April 2006 * Volume 01
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From: Stellingwerfs Eigen <info at stellingwerfs-eigen.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology"

Ron wrote abaout:
> Meideborch/Magdeburg relates to young women.

Thanks for Your clear explanation.
mvg
Piet Bult (Stellingwarf)

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From: Roland Desnerck <desnerck.roland at skynet.be>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2006.04.12 (03) [E]

Beste Lowlanders,
In het West-Vlaams van de Oostendse vissers kennen we: "blénde sjhérn"
("blinde scheren) en dat staat voor het Nederlands: klippen,
onderwaterrotsen dus.
Verder betekent "sjharre" in het West-Vlaams een kale kop, kaal hoofd,
kaalgeschoren hoofd (verwant dus met "schaar", "scheren", "schier" (bijna);
vermoedelijk ook met het Engels "shore".
Leuk is het volgende: spreidstand (met de benen open dus) noemen wij
"sjhérrewieds".
Als iemand een plotselinge zotternij beleeft, zeggen wij:
"de deen kriegd e sjhiertsje" (de deen = die).
Toetnoasteki én vele toalgroetsjes van Roland Desnerck

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From: Kevin Caldwell <kevin.caldwell1963 at verizon.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2006.04.11 (09) [E]

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Etymology
>
>
> My assumption is that names for "girl" came to be quasi-euphemisms for
> "(female) servant."  Besides, the two tended to be the same in most
> medieval
> and earlier communities.  With the exception of well-protected upper-class
> girls, all girls were used as unpaid or cheap labor, first in their homes,
> then often in other people's houses and finally in their parents-in-law's
> houses until they reached matronhood and replaced the previous head
> matrons.

Interestingly, the English word "boy" possibly originally meant a slave or
male servant, supposedly coming from the same IE root as "cow", "bovine",
and "beef" (Latin "bos").

>>From the Online Etymological Dictionary
(http://www.etymonline.com/index.php):

"boie "servant, commoner, knave, boy," possibly from O.Fr. embuie "one
fettered," from V.L. *imboiare, from L. boia "leg iron, yoke, leather
collar," from Gk. boeiai dorai "ox hides." But it also appears to be
identical with E.Fris. boi "young gentleman," and perhaps with Du. boef
"knave," from M.Du. boeve, perhaps from M.L.G. buobe."

Kevin Caldwell

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Thanks, guys!

By the way, in case you weren't alread aware of it, all of you belong to the 
kahunically distinguished (http://www.lowlands-l.net/treasures/kahuna.htm).

Yes, Roland, English "shore" appears to be related to Low Saxon _schaar_ 
(the latter of which can also mean 'shore', albeit in the special sense of 
"broken-off shoreline," where there is a sudden drop from arable land on top 
to the beach or water below, something that in German is called _Steilküste_ 
("steep coast").  And there's the apparently related "sheer" (_schier_), as 
in "sheer drop."  I assume that English "skerry" is a Scandinavian loan 
specially denoting the types of rocky island common along parts of the 
Nordic coasts (< = loanword):

Old Norse: sker
Icelandic: sker
Faeroese: sker
Swedish: skär
Norwegian: skjer
Danish: skær
English: skerry <
Scots: skerry, scarey <
Gaelic: sgeir <
German: Schäre (~ Schäreninsel) <
Latvian: šēra <
Polish: schery <
Estonian: skäär <
Finnish: kari <

Kevin:

> Interestingly, the English word "boy" possibly originally meant a slave or
> male servant, supposedly coming from the same IE root as "cow", "bovine",
> and "beef" (Latin "bos").

Very interesting indeed!  Thanks.

And "girl" (< _gyrela_) whose origin appears to be somewhat obscure but 
seems to be linked with words for "virgin," only came to denote 'female 
child' in the 16th century.  Before that it could mean "child" in general, 
and it seems to be related to Low Saxon _goere_ ~ _goer_ [gø:re] ~ [gø:3`] 
'child' (> German _Gör_ negative for 'brat', 'little monster'), 
interestingly appears with two genders: _de goere_ ~ _dat goer_.

Similarly, East Frisian Low Saxon _wicht_ for 'girl' seems to have started 
meaning 'child' in general (related to English "wight").

The folks at _The Oxford English Dictionary_ say that these words, as also 
"lad" and "lass," are difficult to etymologize because they may well have 
begun as jocular words and have undergone dramatic semantic shifts.

Interesting is the Drenthe Low Saxon word _prugel_ ["pry:x at l] for 'child', 
because it sounds as if it is related to German _Prügel_ 'stick for 
beating', 'beating', 'hiding' ...  That's scary, not to mention "scarey" as 
in "skerry" ...

There's also the Low Saxon word _blage_ ~ _blaag'_ for 'child'.  Apparently, 
its original meaning is "bellow(s)," probably because of insistent crying of 
infants or screaming of children in general.  In German you get _Balg_ in 
this sense also.

As we have mentioned in similar discussions before, original words for 
"child" tended to become tabooized in fear of evil spirits (i.e., rampant 
childhood disease and mortality), and oftentimes "ugly" replacement words 
were used instead to fool the demonic predetors.  A glaring example of this 
is Turkish _çocuk_ which appears to have been derived from a word originally 
meaning 'piglet' (of which most Turks these days are not aware).  This goes 
hand in hand with the old practice of not mentioning children's real names 
(which tend to have beautiful meanings) and instead using "deflective" 
childhood names (_göbek adı_ "umbilical cord name," usually given by the 
midwife), often with negative or just "weird" meanings.  Some of those have 
survived as real names, for instance Damla ("water drop"), Tufan 
("torrential rain"), Benan ("finger tip"), Erman ("rotten bone"), Esma 
("ear"), Jülide ("confused," "promiscuous"), Mecnun ("crazed"), Şeyda 
("crazy"), Nalan ("moaner," "groaner") and Tezcan ("impetuous" diminutive, a 
bit like "Antsy-Pants").

I wonder if words for and related to "child" are often so difficult to 
etymologize because of similar practices in ancient times.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron 

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