LL-L 'Names' 2006.08.03 (01) [E/LS]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 03 August 2006 * Volume 01
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From: 'Stellingwerfs Eigen' <info at stellingwerfs-eigen.nl>
Subject: LL-L 'Names'

Beste Ron,
Nog even over die Hollaanders en Nederlaanders. Trek et je niet an. Ik wete
vanzels ok wel dat zoks rondomme een hiele protte veurkomt. Ok bi'j oons
gebeurt et nogal es dawwe bi'jglieks alleman die uut de U.K. kommen mar al
te gauw allemaole Engelsen numen, of as meensken Russisch praoten bin et
allemaole Russen en gao zo mar deur.
Ik daenke dat et komt van et voetballen "Hup Holland hup" of misschien ligt
et wel an Frau Antje mit heur "Käse aus Holland".
Mit een vrundelike groet uut Stellingwarf,
Piet Bult

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Names

Beste Piet,

> Trek et je niet an.

Nee!  Keyn bang!  An-trekken dou ik my dat nich.  Dat passt my al so nich.

"Holland" and "England" are still commonly used in Germany to refer to the
Netherlands and to the United Kingdom respectively.

> Ik daenke dat et komt van et voetballen "Hup Holland hup" of misschien ligt
> et wel an Frau Antje mit heur "Käse aus Holland".

Ik bün heyl seker dat is veel, veel older, dat 't vun de tyd af-kümt as sik de
Hollanders de anneren rebeyden {gebieden} ünner d'n nagel reten.  Dat is de olde
_modus operandi_: "Noem de 'neyen' rebeyden na 't mouder-rebeyd; den wardt dat
ook so."  Nich vergeten: _Nomen est omen_.

Un ook düt nich vergeten: Jy in de oosternen Nedderlanden noemt sogaar Joun
Sassisch-sprakigen verwandten up de annere syd vun d'n "paal" vaken "Prusen" (tou
minst wen Jy meynt wy hoyrt dat nich), ofschoonst wy keyn Prüüssen (Preußen)
sünd.  Dat kümt vun de olden tyden.  Suy so!  Wen Jy us "Prüüssen" noemen dout,
den schullen Jy Jou nich beklagen wen wy Jou "Hollanders" noemt.  ;-)

Kumpelmenten,
Reinhard/Ron

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From: Leslie Decker <leslie at familydecker.org> 
Subject: LL-L 'Names' 2006.08.02 (05) [E]

Re: Netherlands vs. Holland

I always say that I studied in Holland, but only because I actually
did. If I'd been in, say, Utrecht or Groningen rather than Leiden, I'd
say Netherlands.

Of course, telling many people around here that I studied in Holland
usually leads to the next question, "So...do you speak... (wheels
turning in head--I can tell they want to say Hollandese, or even
Hollandaise)...." "Dutch," I save them. "Yes, I do." :-)

Leslie

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From: 'Reuben Epp' <reuben at uniserve.com> 
Subject: LL-L 'Names' 2006.08.02 (05) [E]

I should like to clarify the name 'Russländer' as applied to
certain Mennonite immigrants from the former Soviet Union
to the Americas.

There were several large migrations of Mennonite Colonists
from Russia (none of whom were Russian natuionals) to
North and South America, beginning in the 1870s as a
result of restrictions imposed upon them by Russian
Government policies.

The first major migration of Mennonites from Russia to
America took place, beginning about 1874, in which
Mennonites from Russia settled in Minnesota,
Kansas, Nebraska and Manitoba, Canada. At that
time, little or no distinction was made betwen settler
groups because all had come to America from Russia
in that time period, and were ethnically (by then) one
people of similar persuasion.

The second major influx of Mennonites from Russia
to the Americas took place in and after the 1920's.
The differences in political outlook of this later
contingent and their attitude toward education, had
been greatly altered in Russia in the years between
1870 and 1920 among Mennonites of this
second major immigrational wave.

And so it came about that Mennonites of the 1870s
migration, even members of the same family
from Russia commonly came to be known in
America as Amerikauna, Kanaudja, whereas
those who immigrated in later years were labeled
as Russlända.

Cheers!

Reuben Epp

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Names

Hi, Kevin!

> In modern Russian, there is a clear distinction between "russkiye" (ethnic
> Russians) and "rossijskiye" (citizens of the Russian Federaion).

True, but not in English or other languages I can think of.

Well, I take that back. In Mennonite Low Saxon (_Plautdietsch_) you seem to
be
able to distinguish between _Russe(n)_ (ethnic Russians) and _Russländer_
(anyone
in or recently emigrated from the former Soviet Union), hence the
_Russländer_
dialect of _Plautdietsch_ of people in or more recently immigrated from what
used
to be the Soviet Union.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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