LL-L 'Etymology' 2006.08.23 (04) [D/E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 23 August 2006 * Volume 04
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From: 'Marcel Bas' [roepstem at hotmail.com]
Subject: LL-L 'Etymology' 2006.08.23 (01) [D/E/LS/German]

Beste Roland, Reinhard, Elsie,

Roland schreef:

> "Druide" zou dus kunnen betekenen: "bij de eik weten" of iets
>dergelijks.

Prachtig. Zo zie je maar; ook bij de Kelten was de eik ook een heilig boom.

Je schreef ook:

>"quesnoy", vandaar de bij ons in Oostende voorkomende naam Duquesnoy.
>Toetnoasteki.

In Zuid-Vlaanderen (ook wel 'Frans-Vlaanderen' genoemd) heb je de plaats
_Quesnoy_. In het Nederlands heet die plaats _Kiezenet_. Ik neem aan dat
_Quesnoy_  zonder de 's' uitgesproken wordt, dus als _ kenwà _. Interessant dat de
Nederlandse variant de uitspraak van de 's' nog bewaard heeft.

Ron schreef:

>English has "lane," Scots has _loan_, and Dutch has _laan_, but there seem to be
>no cognates in Low Saxon. Might this be a Frisicism?
>And how do you etymologize it?

De etymologie is onzeker, als je het verder dan het Germaans wil zoeken. In het
Oudnoors heb je _l,on_ dat 'huizenrij, weg, schuur' betekent. Jan de Vries zegt
dat verbinding met Grieks _eláo_ , _ela;uno_ "drijven, voortdrijven" hoogst
onzeker is, al biedt het Nederlandse woord _dreef_  (straatje) daarvoor een parallel.

Elsie vroeg of het Afrikaanse woord _Loerie_ misschien verwant is aan _lork_ of
_leeuwerik_  en familie. A.E. Cloete (2003) schrijft dat het uit het
zeventiende-eeuwse Nederlandse _lori_ komt. Opvallend vind ik wel de overeenkomst
met het woord _lorre_  in het Nederlands, dat _papegaai_  betekent. _Lorre_
(Polly in het Engels! Reinhard, jij kent die bijnaam wel! :)) komt voort uit het
Maleise _loeri_  of _noeri_ 'papegaaiensoort van de Molukken'. Zo is de cirkel
weer rond!

Groeten, Marcel.

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From: Paul Finlow-Bates [wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk]
Subject: LL-L 'Etymology' 2006.08.23 (01) [D/E/LS/German]

    From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yhoo.com]
    Subject: Etymology

    On the other hand, Low Saxon has a word for 'alley' _twyt(e)_ (Twiete, Twiet
    [tvi:t(e)], still used in some North German street names, _Twiete_ also meaning
    'alley' in Hamburg German). Are there cognates in related languages. Does the
    etymology have anything to do with "two," and if so, how? (If there were a
    German cognate I would expect *_Zweiße_ or *_Zweite_, Dutch *_twijt_.) Might it
    be the idea of "accompanying (a street)," "lane parallel to a street," or perhaps
    like German _Nebenstraße_ 'secondary/side street'?

    Regards,
    Reinhard/Ron

A narrow alleyway where I used to live near Leicester was called "The Twitten". 
I never realised it had a German relative! 
 
Paul Finlow-Bates

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From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yhoo.com]
Subject: Etymology

Thanks, guys.  

Now we're talkin', Paul!  You led me onto the path of truth.

Apparently I wasn't too far off with "secondary."  The OED mentiones that
"twitten" could be related to _Twiete_, and it links it to (OE _twicen_ ~
_twycene_ > ME _twychen_) "twitchel," meaning "fork in a road" (such as German
_Abzweigung_ "off-branch-ing").  I go one step farther and say it may be related
to LS _twyg_ and German _Zweig_ 'branch'.

> I never realised it had a German relative! 

Well, could that be because ... it AIN'T German?  ;-(  (_Twiete_ is a Low Saxon
loan in local German dialects.  Bear in mind that _tw..._ is not a native German
option.)

> Lorre_ (Polly in het Engels! Reinhard, jij kent die bijnaam wel! :)) komt voort
uit het 
> Maleise _loeri_  of _noeri_ 'papegaaiensoort van de Molukken'. Zo is de cirkel
weer rond!

Yep. _Nuri_ in Standard Indonesian and Standard Malay, dialectical _luri_ (the
Dutch spelling _oe_ for [u] now being a thing of the past).  It is the origin of
English _lory_ (and _lorikeet_) and German _Lori_.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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